Misleading Magazine Title

[Anonymous]

I used to subscribe to Classic Toy Trains for several years, then quit. Want to know why? Simply this: I am a long time S-gauger. Classic Toy Trains treated my gauge as almost non-existant. Yes, an occasional article would appear in the magazine, but not enough to keep my interest and desire to subscribe. The focus of the magazine is almost pure Lionel, which as any true enthusiast of railroading can see is so far from being realistic with 3-rail track, clumsy looking locomotives, cars, and accessories. Therefore, the title ot the magazine is misleading. It should be titled, "CLASSIC LIONEL TRAINS".

[Munster518]

Just an honest question but, why did you join this forum then if your into S gauge.[:)]

[overall]

Indian,
If you do not like the magazine, you are free to choose another one, maybe "S gaugian".
This is a free market we live in. I don't think your negative comments about Lionel products are necessary. Linn Westcott said, in one of his "at the throttle" editorials in MR years ago that criticizing another man's choice of scale invites a reaction similar to criticizing his choice of automobile, political party or church. Therefore, such remarks should be avoided. With all due respect, it is advice well worth taking. Perhaps, if you feel strongly that there is an unserved market for a purely AF magazine you could start one yourself. The magazines we have today all started somewhere.

George

[spankybird]

Gee - Here I thought the third rail is what put Toy in Classic Toy Trains.

[Roger Bielen]

First, welcome to the forum, we aren't particular to any one gauge, we're a light hearted group out to enjoy toy trains no matter which gauge. As to your comments about CTT, I would guess that it is somewhat to do with the size of the market for the different gauges determining the focus. As there has been more new S gauge coming onto the market there has been an occasional mention in CTT. As, and if, S grows you will probably see more info. in the future.

Maybe the overlord will comment when he sees this.

[ben10ben]

Much of what a magazine prints depends on what they receive to print; aside from the regular columns, practically all of CTT's articles are submitted by people not on the staff. If you think tha there's a market for S gauge articles in the magazine, write some yourself, and be sure to let the magazine know how much you enjoy it when such articles do appear.

[MTsteamfan]

FWIW, indian river, Lionel has been really upgrading their realism lately along with the rest of the industry. I think you should take another look at their offerings over the past few years. Sure they still make plenty of "toy train" like items, but their scale engines and cars are very nice.

[Anonymous]

OBVIOUSLY, the majority who replied to my posting missed the train, so to speak. It is a matter of what the magazine should be correctly titled. Simple enough! Why did I subscribe in the first place? That is simple too. The title of CLASSIC TOY TRAINS implied ALL gauges, which as time went on proved to be an utter falsehood. Yes, I am aware of the S-Gaugian. IT is correctly titled and its topics appropriate. As to 3 rail being "toy" train territory, that is not correct as there are other "toy" trains out there which are correctly depicted as 2-rail.

[csxt30]

It's not uncommon for a lot of our fellow O-gauge guys to mention how they get magazines like Model Railroader, an HO magazine, for great reading & ideas. If I was into S-gauge, I surely would be picking a copy of CTT & others now & then to see what I could build, or get ideas or help with mountain building, etc. Well Indian, It's good you came over & told us your problem, cause now we can counsel you on it . I've noticed a lot of very highly educated people here & not too many rivet counters ! I will continue to enjoy my clumsy, unrealistic Toy trains ! Thanks, John

[Blueberryhill RR]

Indian River, welcome to the Forum.
Seeing as this was your first post, I am
curious...Did you come here to stir up a little dust with the guys
or to just vent your problems.
Why don't you write a letter to the CTT mag and complain.
I could give you a dozen things wrong with S gauge. But
that is my opinion and I would not be as rude as you.
Chuck

[Bob Keller]

The largest share of our readership is interested in O gauge, S gauge falls in second.

We run nice S gauge layouts (we're in the middle of a two-part S gauge construction story), we have an S gauge locomotive repair story coming up in an issue or so, and whenever new S gauge locomotives come out, when we receive them, we review them. For example, I've got an S-Helper starter set coming up in the January issue.

But we can't be all things to all people, so S Gaugian, a terrific magazine, may better suit your interests.

[IRONROOSTER]

indian river - I would have to say your are being unnecessarily offensive. I am into S on the scale side as opposed to the toy train side. I subscribe to CTT because most of the S products crossover into scale with the change of wheels and couplers, but I also enjoy reading about what's going on with Lionel, MTH, and the rest of 3 rail world. I've even got a loop of Lionel track on a table under my layout where I run Lionel's NYC Flyer, so I guess I am not a purist. If I had the room I would run a little standard gauge as well. I think CTT does a good job covering S. I also subscribe to S Gaugian, MR, and RMC as well as belonging to NMRA and NASG. I guess my point here is - it's all fun lighten up and enjoy the trains whatever the scale, gauge,etc.
Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

"The title of CLASSIC TOY TRAINS implied ALL gauges,"
-------------------------

Yep! And all gauges of toy trains is what it includes. Not every gauge or type of toy train is represented in every issue, of course, but who could realistically expect otherwise?

Not enough S gauge? Well, put your keyboard to more productive use than just coming on-board with a big chip on your shoulder, and write an article to submit, or at least send in a proposal for an article.

"S Gaugian" is a fine magazine. I read it myself from time to time and I've never owned any S gauge trains in my entire lifetime (although I would if I were starting over again). Stick with that publication if it's more to your liking, but I hope you do realize that's it's both rude and crude to knock on the door and enter someone else's home so you can proclaim what a dump it is.

Back when I was a boy, my friends and I went through the two-rail vs. three-rail thing a thousand times over in a good-natured way. There were no winners or losers; just some inspired dialog that never became heated, bitter, or nasty. I guess people--even young ones-- were generally more civil and mannerly back then.

Paul said you were being "unnecessarily offensive." I wouldn't be quite as polite in describing your behavior as a new kid on the block.

[ChiefEagles]

well put guys, for my [2c] Notice it did not get deleted here and got an answer from CTT. [;)]

[Buckeye Riveter]

Just curious, but I wonder what the actual market is for:
N
HO
S
O
G

In other words, if we put 100 "train" people in a room, what percent primarily models a particular scale. I would assume that HO would lead the pack based upon my reading and my observation at train shows.

[Anonymous]

HO, N, O, G, S--in that order from most popular in terms of overall sales to least popular--would be my guess.

[Jumijo]

I've got many back issues of CTT and they are are filled with S-scale articles.

Jim

[Anonymous]

I could better understand your problem if "S" did not have it's own publication. I do NOT understand your problem with the title of CTT unless you took out a 5 year subscription before you realised it was'nt "S heavy". Most of the "how to" articles are not scale-specific (S-scale snow???). I "started" with O as a kid, re-started with postwar AF S, now mainly into newer O, and recently built a small N layout. Because I love trains, I love ALL publications that deal with them.

[nblum]

This has got to be the most questionable complaint of the year, IMO. Inaccurate, petulant and self-serving, not to mention unfair. CTT cannot publish stuff they don't receive and the magazine is the only one that covers a broad range of toy train topics, including historical information, other than the TCA Quarterly, which requires TCA membership. Suggest you reconsider both your position and level of hostility. And write an article about S gauge trains for CTT. There will be more S gauge stuff and you'll get paid for it too ;).

[FJ and G]

Indian River,

I AGREE with you!

I too think that the title Classic Toy Trains should change. The new title should be:

"Modern and Classic Toy Trains in O and S Gauge, Featuring Lionel, MTH, American Flyer, K-Line, Williams, 3rd Rail, Weaver, & Several Others."

Do you think that would fit on the cover?

[:D][^][8D][}:)][:O][:P][:P][:P][:P][;)]

[Buckeye Riveter]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter

Just curious, but I wonder what the actual market is for:
N
HO
S
O
G

In other words, if we put 100 "train" people in a room, what percent primarily models a particular scale. I would assume that HO would lead the pack based upon my reading and my observation at train shows.

I thought about this overnight and checked EBAY this morning to see what scales were selling. Here is the number of auctions, rounded to the nearest hundred for each size:

Z - 600
N - 7,900
HO - 24, 900
OO - 300
S - 1,700
O - 18, 300
Stand - 800
G - 2,400
Using the numbers above as a guide we could speculate that popularity of the scales are:
HO - 1st
O - 2nd
N - 3rd
G - 4th
S - 5th
Stand - 6th
Z - 7th
OO - 8th

Of course this does not give us a perfect sampling, because maybe the N scale folks for instance don't sell their cars on Ebay but rather toss them in a shoe box. Wouldn't 50 N Scale cars fit in a shoe box?

I guess it does explain why we don't see many articles in CTT about OO scale. There are very few people who would or could write articles about this scale.

And that is my [2c] BTW, I'm still looking for all those Lionel ads in CTT. [:)] I bet CTT is looking, too. [:D]

Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum. 

Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..

Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR

TCA 09-64284

• Reply

[FJ and G]

Thank's Buckeye,

Great research and although not scientific, would seem to be a good yardstick of popularity.

It's sad about S scale never catching on big. I think it's much much better than HO, heftwise and yet small enough.

[Frank53]

QUOTE: Originally posted by indian river
[brWhy did I subscribe in the first place? That is simple too. The title of CLASSIC TOY TRAINS implied ALL gauges, which as time went on proved to be an utter falsehood.

so you're looking to blame your lack of research on the content on just the title of the magazine.

I picked up a copy of Time Magazine the other day, because I thought it was about watches and clocks. It' wasn't. I'm ticked off. I'm going to sue.

I've got an ex-wife who can provide me with enough mindless drama and narrow thinking to last a lifetime, good thing I could pick up a little extra here.

[Warburton]

FWIW, I'd like to see more articles in CTT on Marx layouts. There is something irresistible to me about the toylike look of Marx trains and accessories. But there is precious little Marx stuff in the mag because there is precious little interest in it (compared to o gauge).
I think CTT does a fairly good job of covering s gauge and I enjoy the articles about it even though I'm a Lionel guy.

My local dealer sells many times more Lionel product than Am Flyer although he stocks both. He says for some reason there is not the interest in Flyer that there is in Lionel. Also, that Flyer guys are more prone to buy postwar Flyer in very good condition and fix it up themselves rather than spring for new production stuff. He finds this discrepancy between L and AF fans very puzzling, as do I!

[1688torpedo]

I do not believe That CTT is misleading anybody as to the content of what is in its pages. I find it to be a very informative and fine magazine to boot. CTT has had articles in the past dealing with S gauge layouts,American Flyer S Gauge Collections and collectors, And. even Ads from companies that cater to the S Gauge Crowd with products and services. Sir, I do not understand your complaint at all.

[hugoroundhouse]

I'm a died-in-the-wool American Flyer guy. I've always thought that three-rail Lionel stuff looked a little funky, but at the same time, I realize that what I prefer is in the minority. Flyer was always in the minority. When I get my copy of CTT, I fully expect it to be primarily about Lionel-type products, but applicable to other gauges and O brands.

Just about all articles have application to Flyer as well as Lionel. Remember the article about straightening out a bent loco cab?

I do appreciate seeing articles specific to American Flyer, like the recent one on rebuilding and maintaining swtiches.

I think we sometimes get too obsessed with our own preferences. We need to relax and enjoy the ride. Let's not take the fun out of this! If we do it becomes WORK (yuck!) not a hobby !

Ridin' that 2-rail Flyer into the sunset.....

Jim E.

[laz 57]

Hey some GIZ like 0 Gauge and some like FLYER.
Just shut up and read the magazine if you don't like it don't get it.
Simple as that.
laz57

[Tom1947]

I also run and collect Flyer. I also look forward to Classic Toy Trains coming each month. I have every issue except the very first issue. I do not know how many times over the past years that I have pulled out a back issue of Classic Toy Trains to look at past articles. The information contained in many of the articles applies to more than one specific scale. Platform construction, scenery, and wiring applies to all scales not just one. I cannot remember an issue that has not had at least one article on Flyer. I do remember when I saw the first issue of Classic Toy Trains. I was really glad that someone had decided to publish a magizine with the older trains of the 50's and 60's in mind. Up until that time most of the magizines cover HO primarly. Each month I look forward to the arivial of the magizine and those and those months that no magizine is published seem long. To the staff of Classic Toy Trains keep up the good work.

[Anonymous]

After reading the first post only, you error is that the title should read classic MTH is the best Trains, since CTT seems more willing to bash all of lionel and no one else!

I mean, when a lionel reissue F-3 was tested, CTT bashed it saying stuff like the details were old and the design junky, but when williams issued their copies with can motors, they were hailed as the greatest thing since sliced bread...............something a little out of sinq there.

It is unfortunate that there are not more S guage articles, on the other hand, there are 100+times more S gauge probucts on the market than there ever have been before and maybe it will get better????

You don't see any standard gauge articles do you?
You don't see many small layout's do you?
All the new small designs are remakes showing how to use fasttrack or MTH equivqlent( not for me, but its not a bad thing either)

The layouts seem to be catering to the fellow that pays big bucks to have a layout built for him that is a closer to scale than highrail giant........ good for those guys, but I am NOT one who only likes to see those layouts because thats what someone thinks I dream for!

My favorite altime CTT layout article still is the Dec 99 one about John Anderson's late 40's basemnt layouts with history and great pics........... Thats what I want to build......... More like that please?????

[FJ and G]

geee. I strayed so far off topic forgot to welcome Indian R. to the forum.

WELCOME ABOARD!

We'll keep a pot of coffee warm for ya.[:D]

Sorry we keep losing our train of thought