Lionel/K-Line lawsuit settled!

[4kitties]

Just personal opinion here, but I think K-Line is doing fine with marketing more upscale products. I re-entered O gauge in 2000; I grew up with EMD F units; I model the Pennsylvania RR, and one might expect I would have F units on my layout. However, I didn't have any until last month, when the K-Line set I had on order finally shipped. These are the recent models with upgraded details. OK, so they had to pull the cruise control out of them; I think they still run just fine and they look great. The way they hid the tethers inside the diaphragms is pretty neat. All the units have smoke, including the dummy B's. I feel that no other manufacturer can touch the value in this set, which is why I waited for it. I say good job, K-Line, and best of luck. I hope you stick around for a long time.

Joel

[tdetmer]

Dave,

Thanks for checking. I forgot to mention that I am looking for an S gauge model so probably what they have is O gauge. We S gauge folks tend to get so into S that we forget that we're a minority! [(-D] Anyway, I bet you didn't mind stopping in anyway. Who has a problem with stopping at a train store?

Tom

[Anonymous]

Hi Tom,

I stopped into "Davis Trains" after work. They had Plymouths in the following road names: B&O, Strasburg, S.P., and Hooker. Sorry I didn't see a Milwaukee Road unit or the Porter. Hope this helps.

Dave

[tdetmer]

Dave,

Let me know what you find out about the K-Line Plymouth engines. I've got a Milwaukee Road Plymouth engine on order and I've been told they're backordered so I just was curious how accurate that was and if its likely that those engines might be available soon. Thanks!

Tom

[Anonymous]

it's not k-lines technology that got me to buy two of their products at full price without question (something i almost never do).

it's their creative whimsy, and their willingness to stick their neck out to appeal to my impulsive nature.

i hope lionel did'nt break their spirit.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tdetmer

So, Allan and Dave,

Do you think K-Line will deliver the Plymouth engines they were supposed to deliver in October? I don't know if they contained the prohibited technology or not. I guess none of us know this yet, except that if the engine doesn't have the prohibited technology, then maybe they'll be delivered for the holidays. One can only hope!

Tom

Tom,
I believe I saw a few Plymouth's and Porters on the shelf at my local Hobby shop in Milford, Oh. this past weekend. I may stop in on the way home and double check.
Dave

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Can some/all of K-line's more detailed tooling be considered as "other, selected patents?"

Not unless the way the tooling works has a patent which is unlikely.

It may have to do with access to K-Lines new control scheme, aka Lionel gets to access this technology under license, but without having to pay a royalty. This is just a guess/speculation. I have a hard time imagining what K-Line would have a patent on that Lionel would want access to?

[garyseven]

Can some/all of K-line's more detailed tooling be considered as "other, selected patents?"

[cnw1995]

I think they've got a real winner to promote in SuperStreets - I think they'll end up overpricing it.

[winrose46]

A co-worker stopped me this morning and asked me about a lionel christmas set he saw at Hecht department store. I gave him the catalog and it looks like he might buy it. Also I did purchase the polar express for my grand daughter (I guess really my son-in-law). They had the Polar Express running and the chistmas set was in the box. I think he liked the 12 Christmas songs and the gondola with the characters running around.

[Jumijo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Allan Miller

Here's my advice to K-Line:

Get back to basics! Forget the fancy high-end stuff and go with the foundation that made you a major player in the first place.

Package those little Porters in sets, complete with track and transformer, and sell 'em for less than $200 (or somewhere in that ballpark). Ditto for those neat little Plymouths. Do Christmas sets with those items, and others, to expand sales to the ceramic village crowd.

You will never be able to cater to the high end scale-oriented crowd in your present situation, so leave that to the few others who can try to make a go of it in that small and increasingly demanding niche.

There are plenty of viable options for thinking outside the box (including advertising and promotion options) and quickly re-establishing a solid customer base. Get out there and kick some butt, Maury D. Hit the major competition where they can't touch you: quality product at affordable prices. I know you've got it in you!

I know some people go for the promotional sets, esecially K-Lines, but I just don't see why. Same with all the holiday themed trains. Real trains don't look like that. I've never understood it. How many people out there are so brand loyal that they would actually by a toy train with the company logo splashed all over it? At least the holiday trains have a certain whimsy or cuteness to them. I can more easily see someone who isn't a train buff buying one of those, but still, how many of those sell? I'm not knocking anyone for liking these items. I just don't get the attraction. Am I in the minority for thinking this way?!

Jim

[Anonymous]

Tom:

I don't imagine that the Plymouths contain any of the prohibited technology--at least they haven't in the past. They are about as basic an engine as one could want.

Now, whether or not the particular model you're looking for will deliver this month is anyone's guess. K-Line is notoriously bad at adhering to announced delivery dates.

[tdetmer]

So, Allan and Dave,

Do you think K-Line will deliver the Plymouth engines they were supposed to deliver in October? I don't know if they contained the prohibited technology or not. I guess none of us know this yet, except that if the engine doesn't have the prohibited technology, then maybe they'll be delivered for the holidays. One can only hope!

Tom

[Anonymous]

Looks as if Kline has already answered my question about the SD70's.
http://www.k-linetrains.com/news/viewNws.cfm?nwsID=005D218A-D567-1917-409508266FBA84F5
Something to look forward to I suppose, although a little disappointing. Considering the circumstances, it seems fair.
I was looking forward to seeing their next membership premium for 2006. Next year should be better.

[Anonymous]

Here's my advice to K-Line:

Get back to basics! Forget the fancy high-end stuff and go with the foundation that made you a major player in the first place.

Package those little Porters in sets, complete with track and transformer, and sell 'em for less than $200 (or somewhere in that ballpark). Ditto for those neat little Plymouths. Do Christmas sets with those items, and others, to expand sales to the ceramic village crowd.

You will never be able to cater to the high end scale-oriented crowd in your present situation, so leave that to the few others who can try to make a go of it in that small and increasingly demanding niche.

There are plenty of viable options for thinking outside the box (including advertising and promotion options) and quickly re-establishing a solid customer base. Get out there and kick some butt, Maury D. Hit the major competition where they can't touch you: quality product at affordable prices. I know you've got it in you!

[Anonymous]

I didn't order the Sd 70 because of this reason. I was looking forward to the SD 70.

[Anonymous]

I'm glad it's (Keep your fingers crossed) over![B)] [:)]
I wonder what this settlement will mean to the KCC members who have prepaid for one of the SD70MAC's with TMCC/RS etc? [%-)]
Gotta hope for the best I suppose![:)][:O][B)]

[spankybird]

JimBo, we could only hope for the payment plan[:O]

[Jim Duda]

Is the $2,000,000 a lump sum payment due tomorrow or can it be amortized over 2 million years...?

[spankybird]

Good News : They settled

Bad News : Can K-line afford it. Didn’t they claim to have Sales of only 4 million in their bankruptcy filing ?

[Jumijo]

[zzz]

It's like de ja vu all over again.

Jim

[Dr. John]

What? again?!?

[Anonymous]

That's good news! Now let's hope for a quick MTH-Lionel settlement so that we can get back to enjoying this hobby.

[KeithL]

From Lionel's Web site this morning, 10/27...

LionelSettles K-Line Lawsuit
10/27/2005


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



COMPANY CONTACT:
Mark Erickson
[phone] x 1467
Lionel L.L.C.



LIONEL SETTLES K-LINE LAWSUIT


CHESTERFIELD, MI -- October 27, 2005 -- Lionel LLC announced today that it has settled the trade secrets law suit it first brought against K-Line Model Trains more than two months ago. In that suit, Lionel claimed that K-Line had paid Lionel's chief engineer to design speed control, sound and transformer systems for use in K-Line’s products, and that those K-Line products contained Lionel’s proprietary technology.



Under the terms of the settlement, K-Line, which filed for bankruptcy protection during the proceedings, agreed to the entry of a permanent injunction that will prohibit them from manufacturing or selling any products that allegedly contained Lionel's technology. They also agreed to renounce any claim to the technology in question, and to give Lionel a $2 million damage claim in its bankruptcy case. Finally, in order to avoid future litigation, K-Line granted Lionel a royalty free license for other, selected patents.



Inventoried supplies of K-Line products containing the Lionel speed control, sound and transformer technology cannot be sold or shipped by K-Line unless the Lionel technology is removed.



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