Incredibly tacky!

[tmcc man]

i agree with dave. They can put their mark on something, but put it in a spot where it cannot distract from the number/roadname graphix

[FJ and G]

Joel,

One reason this is my favorite forum is b/c people are usually very respectul of each other and others opinions, even when they disagree.

[4kitties]

Thanks everyone, I had no idea this topic would evoke so much passion. I'm glad I'm not alone in my feelings. Oh well, at least the colors of the add-on cars match the original ones. I'm still glad I got the add-on set because to me, the basic set looked too short to be believable.

Joel

[daan]

I know that trademarks and stuff need to be protected, but did anyone of those protecting guys even realize that customers will have to buy it first?
A "tm", "R" or "C" is there to let people who buyed the stuff know that the trademark is protected, but as long as the product is unsold, it doesn't have to be protected, does it?
I guess a trademark protection should be on the underside, not visible when using the product normally.
You could also put a card in the box which says loud and clear that all rights belong to the owner of the name or something, but putting it on the side of cars like here, I guess they made a big mistake..

Would you buy a car with "Mercedes TM" and a star on the grille with an "R'" cast in? I would laugh and walk on. By buing the product, you own it. Since you are the customer, they should make it the way you want it to be and if you don't want the "tm" thing on it, send it back and tell them you want a set without it,
or no set at all.

[Anonymous]

Hmm.... do you think the UP and other's might add the "TM" symbol to their regular and special paint scheme's? So when Lionel adds the little "TM" symbol, their models will be prototypical. [:D] Maybe they do already. I'll take a closer look next time I'm stopped by a train.

[FJ and G]

Every trademark notation I've ever seen (R, TM, C) was in close proximity to the name.

I tried to look up the definitive government answer to that question but was bogged down by a weighty profusion of government bureaucratic legaleeze that only the U.S. Govn't could be capable of producing:

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/tmlaw2.html

BTW, the U.S. Patent office is just down the road from me but if I called them, I'd probably have to go through many voice mails and button pushes and I'd end up throwing the phone across the room.

[lionelsoni]

I'm eating lunch right now; so I examined my Lionel lunchbox. It has three Lionel trademarks, one with the circled "R", one with "TM", and one with "TM" and "LICENSED BY LIONEL, LLC".

[MTsteamfan]

I have the original Polar Express, but now I'm not so sure I want the add-ons.

I'm no trademark expert either, but it seems that if the logo-proximity were a big requirement, then every single consumer product would have a little TM next to its logo.

I would think they could stamp on the bottom of the car, "Polar Express and related indicia TM by Warner Bros." or whatever, same way just about any other cartoon-related thing is done.

[FJ and G]

dtpowell,

I'm not a trademark expert but I believe that if the TM symbol is used, it must be fairly close to the logo.

[Anonymous]

The thought of paying $1600.00 + for a Union Pacific Big Boy With a "TM" next the the road name on the tender is frightening. I hope it doesn't come to this. If so, I too would perfer to have the "TM" in an inconspicuous location. Sorry to hear about the Polar express cars.

[Anonymous]

I agree with David, and also respect the right of others to disagree. Having the brand name on the side of the trains likely served Lionel very well in a different day and age, but it is not, in my view, an asset to them these days.

[FJ and G]

I think that all writing not on the prototype should be placed on the underside of trains. For example, the Lionel (or other) name.

That's just my opinion. Others would disagree and I respect their opinions.

[Buckeye Riveter]

Last year a hobby shop offered an "Unofficial Polar Express" on the web. (Does anybody else remember this?) The cars were "hand painted" (?). We all watched as the website dissappeared very quickly and many of us speculated that the hobby shop received a letter or phone call from Lionel and/or Warner Brothers telling them to stop selling this Unofficial Polar Express using copyright and/or trademark law as their legal backing.

I would suspect that we may see the Union Pacific, CSX, or NS logos with the tm in the future on Lionel, MTH, Williams, Weaver, Atlas, etc. products. BTW, those with Disney type cars, is there the tm designation on the car near the word Disney?

[Anonymous]

Not sure what the reason might be, since supposedly the licensing agreement originally concluded for Polar Express items (which did not bear the trademark symbol) would also be the one in effect for any add-ons, but I'll go along with the "incredibly tacky" sentiment.

Since I assume the "TM" symbol is quite small, perhaps you could paint it out if you can find or mix a matching color.

[Anonymous]

It might be because the movie tie-in people demanded it, or even to preserve copyrights abroad.

[Anonymous]

Hey! This might solve that UP licensing issue. If the locomotives had a trademark after the UP logo.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I see your point. It would be better if they could take care of the legalese on the packaging, and leave it off the product, or at least make it less obvious.

On the other hand, if you look at things like Disney cars Lionel has made, I'm pretty sure it has been there all along.

Why the sudden switch on Polar Express? No Clue.

[iguanaman3]

If the cars said "Lionel Polar Express(tm), I could see you blaming Lionel, but they don't own "Polar Express". The tm was most likely now required in a new contract with the names' owners, probably the the author. Leaving out the tm could get Lionel sued again and we don't want that do we? ;)]

Neil

[brianel027]

I don't know, but it isn't imposible that some oversight happened between the initial and later runs. It's also possible this was a new stipulation in the licensing agreement. I noticed years ago during my news media days that many times when new movies would be released, they would have web sites with the title of the movie as the address - and lots of copyright notices and tradmark symbols.

I remember in the late 1960's reading something David Crosby said, where he saw the future of entertainment (ie: rock and roll) as becoming too money oriented: less like art and more like BIG business. He was right.

It should also be noted Lionel itself aggressively goes after copyright violations and business who use their trademarks without permission. Lionel also has a copyright on the orange and blue color scheme they use on their packaging.

What goes around, comes around... and lawyers always collect their fees either way.

[4kitties]

I just received my Lionel Polar Express 2-car add on set, and I was dismayed to see the tiny "TM" next to the lettering "Polar Express." The original cars do not have this. I know copyrights and trade marks need to be protected and enforced, but you can betcha the train in the book and the train in the movie don't have the "TM". I was VERY disappointed that Lionel felt it necessary to include this nod to crass commercialism.

I won't be selling this set, but I'm very disappointed anyway. Nothing is sacred anymore.

Joel