Transformer & Sound Car Issues

[Anonymous]

I have two CW-80's and they both function perfectly -- so far. I may be the only person in the U.S. of A. that can say that, although the initial flurry of criticism appears to have diminished somewhat.

Some people don't like the time-delay (ramp up, ramp down) action of the throttle. Nobody, including me, likes the lack of a common ground; i.e., you can't use the (variable) fixed-voltage tap to power switches (turnouts). That takes a second transformer. Bummer!

Unless they have revised it, the instruction manual is occasionally unclear and actually in error in one place. Despite these limitations, one does need to READ the owner's manual.

Having said that, I can report that my CW-80's run both old and modern Lionel (but not MTH PS-1) "simple" electronics (horn, whistle, sound cars) flawlessly. Furthermore, in side-by-side comparisons, the CW-80 has considerably more power than my postwar 1033 which is in excellent condition.

But the CW-80 is in no sense of the term user-serviceable (just getting the cover off is a challenge -- presumably by design) and it is questionable whether any of them will still be working when 50 years old, as are my old 1033, KW, and ZW's.

There are HUGE threads on this subject in the archives of the other major forum. A chap named Dale Manquen seems to be one of the few experts on the "insides" of the CW-80. All I can vouch for is my own good personal experiences, and try to dodge the sticks and stones that invariably come my way whenever I do.

Maybe you could borrow one and try before you buy....

george

[dougdagrump]

I think it is just a matter of old technology vs new technology. If the Lionel add-on bell butons will work I'll try them but for what they charge I could pickup a newer Mth transformer for about the same price and not have to mess with additional wiring and pieces to attach to the table.
I know it has gotten some [B)]s but what about the Lionel CW80 ?

[lionelsoni]

George, my understanding of Doug's problem is that, as he says, "the whistle/horn lever caused the loco to actually spin it's wheels and accelerate but the sounds did function." So I think the difficulty is not in the locomotive but in the mismatch, probably the lack of a whistle motor as you have explained, between the locomotive and transformer.

[Anonymous]

The extra winding(s) in "postwar" Lionel transformers were designed to compensate for losses in the whistle circuit (as Lionelsoni has correctly pointed out) and for the considerable draw of the air-whistle motor, which had to be started from scratch and brought up to speed quickly. Without this boost, the trains would slow down annoyingly whenever the whistle was sounded.

Most modern sound cars use electronics that do not have motors and thus do not need as much boost. Over the years, on several forums, I have never gotten a satisfactory answer as to whether there's a risk that the boost from the older transformers will fry modern electronics.

On my layout, I often use a separate Lionel sound activation button with modern electronics and thus bypass the old whistle circuit entirely. Many years ago I fried my very first electronic circuit board ("Sound of Steam") the very first time I hit the whistle control on a KW, although I've gotten away with it recently with a variety of electronic sound systems. Perhaps I've just been lucky.

You might try reversing the leads from the transformer to the track, although the K-line sound button probably ought to have worked in any case. Is there a switch or potentiometer under the Halloween car that someone might have inadvertently flipped to off or turned down to zero? Did any wires come loose or pull out while transporting the car between layouts? Check the pickup rollers very carefully. Does the car still work on the club layout with the MTH transformer; or heaven forbid, are the electronics fried? The answers to these questions should go a long way toward a diagnosis. Hope this helps.

george

[lionelsoni]

Transformers generally have an extra winding that the whistle control switches in, to make up for the losses in the rectifier circuit that activates the whistle and to compensate for the load of the whistle motor. The problem is that the amount of compensation needed varies among locomotives and with the load and speed of the train. So it is not hard to find situations where transformer and train do not match, as you have.

[dougdagrump]

On my halloween layout I'll be running a spookysounds boxcar. I had planned on using either a Lionel TW or 1044 transformer however in testing the 4-4-0 and the boxcar the whistle/horn lever caused the loco to actually spin it's wheels and accelerate but the sounds did function. Adding a K-Line whistle/bell activation device didn't help. When tested on the club layout it functioned perfectly although it was powered by an MTH Z-4000 with handheld controller. This tells me that it is the power source that is the problem, which brings up the question: would the Lionel add on bell/whistle buttons correct this or should I consider picking up a new smaller MTH transformer (Z-750 with or without IR) ?