Project finished!!! (pics posted) How do I build a rock solid, elevated loop?

[Craignor]

Folks,

I am looking to add an elevated flat 0-54 loop of MTH Realtrax to my layout.

I have done some research, I will use a sub-roadbed of 1/4", 1/2", or luan plywood(which is best?) under the Realtrax, and fashion my own piers out of wood.

I am planning for a 6 1/2" clearance, so that my double stacks and GG-1 pantographs can run underneath without catching on the overhead loop. Should I go 7"?

My main concerns are being able to run heavy locos on the loop at speed up on the EL without seeing my loop sway, or rise up and down, as the train goes by. I guess I want to use metal L brackets and screws to fasten the piers to the bottom of the sub-roadbed, and run screws throught the underside of my layout into the bottoms of the piers. Does this sound right or is there a better way to go?

I will use MTH bridges, I suppose my sub-roadbed would not go under the bridges, so I guess I should buy the bridges in advance and fit them into elevated loop before starting the subroadbed? Sound right?

I am using the RR Track software which has been a big help.

If you want to see my layout click on the link below.

Any advice or pics of your own El would be helpful.

Thanks.[:)]

[Anonymous]

Go with the 7". If it's a little tall, who cares. If it's short, ....


Don't use less than 3/8" plywood, go with 1/2" or double up 1/4" to make 1/2". I made my own structal piers out of 1x3 cut to needed height and then I used a diagnol piece piece to make a "T" shape for anchoring to the layout. This gave me three anchor points for the table top. I did use L brackets for the elevated sections but I think it would be easier to use the same approach by using a small section of 1x3 to make a T. It's a lot easier to drill down from the top that it is to drill/drive screws from the bottom. I also did what you are proposing or my bridges. I had the piers in place and used 1x3 "shims" to adjust the bridge deck to match the rest of the roadbed.

Good luck.

[Blueberryhill RR]

I am definitely not the authority on proper elevated track, but I will tell you what I did. I went 7" in the height, to allow for my crane car. I used 2 x 4's, cut into
blocks to support the 2 x 4 that is under the track. Lionel 0 guage.
I covered the sides with styrofoam, painted gray to look like concrete.
And I created arches, by cutting out the foam.
It is very sturdy. Runs 24 feet, with a reverse loop at each end. Goes thru
a wall, ( tunnel portal ), and comes back out. If you over do the supports,
then you have no worries.

Chuck

[lionelsoni]

Three-eights-inch plywood (which is actually 11/32) has only 39 percent of the stiffness of half-inch (actually 15/32). Beware of doubling quarter-inch plywood (actually 1/4). It has only 30 percent of half-inch's stiffness--unless you securely fasten the two pieces together, in which case, it goes up to 121 percent.

[Brutus]

I've done some woodworking, but I've never tackled this problem before. From a woodworking point of view, doing two layers of 1/4 inch would be easier. I would first make all my supports. If you have access to a mitersaw, you could even figure the angle needed in the top so the plywood would fit flush against the support. If the 1/4 plywood strips would be wider than 3 1/2 inches (which I suspect they would be), then I would buy the appropriate width, say 2x6 lumber, which is really 5 1/2 wide, and rip it down to the correct width, to be the same width as the roadbed. This would entail one rip cut, one 90 degree cut to separate the supports, and one beveled cut per support, and the support would be exactly the right width. This way you can toenail screw through the 2x6 into the layout table from each side - predrill it! Then attach the first layer of 1/4 inch ply by screwing through from the top of the plywood down into the support. Countersink the screws a little, so the top is at least flush with the top of the plywood. Then I would glue the 2nd layer to the 1st layer along the entire length. This will allow the plywood to better form-fit to the supports, you can stagger the joints, and also laminating the entire thing will give you the very strongest support possible.

Remember too that plywood thickness is nominal as well and 1/4 inch plywood may be about 11/64 to 14/64 (7/32) thick. Gluing it up will stiffen both layers along the entire length.

To hold it while the glue dries, you could shoot brads or use some cheap spring clamps, and just do short lengths at a time - say 4 feet, allowing each to dry for a few hours prior to doing the next. I would also use yellow wood glue, but you might want to get Gorilla glue or something really really strong.

Good luck!

[Big_Boy_4005]

Actually, for clearance 6 1/2" measured from the top of the rail to the bottom of the upper deckis just fine. MTH double stack cars are about the tallest cars on the market, Superliners are next. Pantographs are spring loaded, so they can just follow the wire under the bridge.

For the sub roadbed, I wouldn't go with anything less than 1/2" BC ply, and support it frequently. No more than 16" between supports. For those places where you have tracks passing over other tracks, use bridges with thin metal decks, and cut away the plywood.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Jim, I've done a fair amount of that laminating style of construction, but that was for a special project, namely the construction of a helix. While it works great, it isn't necessary to do it over an entire layout, too much labor and time wasted for the return. I don't use that style anywhere else on my layout.

[Anonymous]

My base and elevated roadbed are both 1/2" ply wood with 1/2" blue foam and 5/16" cork plus 7/16" height of GarGraves ties/rails. I used 7-3/4"x 2x4 blocks fastened at top and bottom roadbed with ell brackets and 1/2" screws. Leaves 6-1/2" height clearance from top of rails to bottom of elevated roadbed. At bridges it depends on the orientation of bridge girders,etc.

[dougdagrump]

If you are going to use plywood for your sub-roadbed I would use the 3/8 inch Baltic Birch plywood. Granted it is more expensive but it is uniform in thickness, there are no voids between the individual plys and it is much more rigid than standard plywoods.

[jonadel]

Leonard--

Any chance you would have a pic of your elevated work?

Thanks--

Jon

[Anonymous]

I am building an elevated section now, and I am going with 10 inches between the surface of the lower level deck and bottom of upper level deck. Who knows what cool thing Lionel will make next, or MTH, or whomever, so I want plenty of space under that upper level for whatever comes along. I will use metal wall studs to support the upper level tracks to prevent sagging. I got them at Lowe's and they are pretty sturdy and will not sag in the lengths I am using (about 6 foot). I am not going to be using TMCC or DCS due to vision issues which make it hard to read the handheld displays, so for me, metal on the layout is not going to be an issue with signal strength, interference, etc. I have heard that metal is an issue for some command control layout set ups. If I was not going to use the metal wall studs, I'd be using metal angle iron, which is even stronger, but way more expensive. Got to be careful and wear gloves for the metal wall stud construction. Those sharp edges put money into the Emergency Room doctor's pockets...

[Brutus]

big_boy - I haven't built a layout yet - just set up on a table right now - have to wait until I get the basement finished. I thought he just wanted to do this for an elevated run of track, not a higher level. This does raise a question for me - out of curiosity, for a higher table/level, would you just use 3/4 birch plywood with a skirting of 2x4, built up from the lower table?

Also, on your helix, what is the rise and what circumference circle(s) did you use? I'm thinking of building 2 myself, one inside the other, going up to 2 different levels, and I might make both of them double track....

[Anonymous]

jonadel
If you can log on to it--there is a fairly good picture of the support under part of my elevated on page 15 of the OGR Forum's Photo Album---listed under "MTH Crescent Cars" and the name Dewey Trogdon. I don't have my camera here right now to make a new picture.
There is also another picture--"Control Panel" on page 8 of the OGR Photo Album which shows part of the elevated support..

[Craignor]

Guys,

Thanks for all the tips, its very helpful, as this is new for me.

Keep the tips and advice coming, please.

I am also debating adding one or two raised plateaus along with the loop on piers. The plateaus would allow for some tunnels underneath, and some buildings and commerce trackside to justify the railline. I think the multi-level loop look may make my pike more appealing to the eye. What do you think of this idea?

[dougdagrump]

I like it ! [^]

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jim Fortner

big_boy - I haven't built a layout yet - just set up on a table right now - have to wait until I get the basement finished. I thought he just wanted to do this for an elevated run of track, not a higher level. This does raise a question for me - out of curiosity, for a higher table/level, would you just use 3/4 birch plywood with a skirting of 2x4, built up from the lower table?

Also, on your helix, what is the rise and what circumference circle(s) did you use? I'm thinking of building 2 myself, one inside the other, going up to 2 different levels, and I might make both of them double track....

Jim, there are a lot of different techniques for doing benchwork, and elevating track. You might want to use a method called "cookie cutter". This is where you start with flat benchwork, and a simple plywood top. Then you draw your track plan on it, best to set up your thack and make an outline of it. Finally take a saber saw and cut along the lines of the elevated tracks, and support them in the elevated position. You will have to make filler pieced where tracks cross over each other, though many times putting a bridge in that location will work just fine.

If you just want a big flat section raised up, there's nothing wrong with building it that way. But if you want trains to go under that section, remember to make it high enough.

The only things I use 2x4 for on my layout are legs and risers. Everything else is made from 1x4.

Because my layout is so large, I use a technique where I only put plywood where the track is going to be. The open space between tracks is filled in later. There are a few places where there is just a flat table for things like towns and yards, places where there is a lot of track. Here are a couple of photos to illustrate.







Then there's the helix. Mine is very large, 10' diameter with an 8" rise per turn. That works out to about a 2% grade. The maximum grade you should ever consider is 4%, that's 4" rise over 100" run.



Here's a close up of the helix showing the plywood lamination. I used two layers of 3/8" ply. The lower is CDX grade, the upper is BC. The reason for doing the lamination method was so I could get the most use out of each sheet with the least waste. The plywood was ripped into strips, and cut into trapazoidal segments. The segments were glued and screwed together. When the glue dried, the screws were removed and reused.

[Buckeye Riveter]

I have been pondering if a technique used by the professional builders of garden railroads could be "modified" to be used on our O Gauge layouts. Please take a look at this website and post your comments.
http://www.btcomm.com/trains/primer/roadbed/ladder1.htm

[dougdagrump]

Craig, If you go the plateau route why not use a series of "arch under bridges to connect the ends of the plateau, especially if the point to point connection is a straight line. [8D]

[Brutus]

Wow - 10 foot diameter? So you used flex track for that?

Craignor - great topic!

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jim Fortner

Wow - 10 foot diameter? So you used flex track for that?

Craignor - great topic!

Yup Jim, Gargraves all the way.[8D]

Did you notice in the close up of the helix construction, there are 2 layers of 1/4" Luan?

For my hidden tracks, I cut strips of Luan, and use them both to get proper spacing and to lock the track in place. The bottom layer is the spacer, which is pressed firmly against the ends of the ties. The top layer laps over the ends of the ties and holds the track down. For the curved sections, like the helix, I use my radial arm saw, and cut kerfs (notches) into the strips, so they bend smoothly.

When laying the track for the helix, I first drew a line using my "vertical compass". If you look at the photo of the helix, you can see a pole going from floor to ceiling. That is a piece of electrical conduit. At the top, you can see the compass arm. It is secured to the conduit with an eyebolt.

Once the line is drawn, I just screw down the first strip of Luan. This gives me an edge to form the Gargraves track to. This system also ensures that I have the correct side clearance for the trains, both between tracks, and structural supports.

Never any derailments in the helix. Now getting TMCC signal in there is a different story. I'm still working on that.

[Craignor]

Folks,

Thanks for all the input, I just finished. I used many if your sugestions and tips.

For the record, the 0-54 loop is about 13' long, my elevation clearance is 7 1/8 inches, piers are 1x3"s, 16 inches apart, 1/2 inch plywood subroadbed, L brackets to secure the piers to the surface, 2 screws through the subroadbed and into the tops of the piers.

Scale double stacks and Scale GG-1's pass under with plenty of room to spare.

This is my third loop.

The loops are: 0-82, 0-72, and now 0-54. The layout is 8x16.

Rock solid![:D]

Here are some pics:











Before pic:



I

[Brutus]

Very nice! Good job!

[tmcc man]

Nice job, I like it.

[waltrapp]

Nice going Craig. Looks 'rock solid' too!

walt