O or O-27 Tubular Track

[FJ and G]

thanks, Bob. I'll try it next week and draw out a sketch and post results.

[waltrapp]

Too bad Bob that I sent my article to the wrong address, huh? Wonder if it will ever make it to print?

- walt

[lionelsoni]

No, not at all. The ends of the coils that were connected to the control rails in the switch remain connected to them. Only the other ends, which were connected to the center rail, get reconnected to an always-on accessory voltage. But the other side of that accessory voltage is "grounded" to the outside rails of the layout. So, when the wheels make a connection from a control rail to the grounded outside rail, the circuit is completed just as before and the switch throws.

Using a DC voltage instead of AC makes no difference, except that the buzzing goes away. It also allows you to use a capacitor to supply the switch-throwing energy. The advantage of this is that the 5000-microfarad capacitor stores only about enough energy to throw the switch. After that, not enough current can get through the 100-ohm recharging resistor to harm the coils, even if a train sits on the switch all day.

Another advantage of using DC is that you can make nifty diode arrangements to throw combinations of switches. For example, my 8-track yard has only 4 controllers, to throw the 4 final switches. The other three upstream are aligned automatically through diodes when I throw one of the 4.

[FJ and G]

Bob N.,

I've been giving your idea some consideration over the last several days and have a question.

to power it independently in the way you describe, wouldn't it void the anti-derailing feature?

[FJ and G]

thanks guys for the input. this will give me something to chew over as I mull my next level layout that I plan to start either this weekend or next

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jim Duda

How are "real" switches operated? By an electric motor controlled by a button operated remotely from the switch...or manually like brianel does it? Which is more prototypical? Hmmmmmmm...

Hi Jim, long time no see. It must be me not hanging around here as much, though summer and flying may have something to do with it too.[;)]

The answer to the question of throwing switches is actually BOTH. On heavily used mainlines dispatchers control switches remotely. Only industrial switches away from the main are thrown by hand. Hump yards are all automatic, and some flat yards have been converted to powered throws with radio control, very much like TMCC.

I have a bunch of photos to illustrate the various styles of throw, but I don't have them uploaded for posting. By the way, the BNSF can control switches in St Paul and all over their network from Fort Worth. The other major railroads are similarly equipped.

I guess how you throw your switches on your railroad depends on a lot of things. I use Caboose Industries ground throws on my industrial switches, and motors on any switches connected to the main. Most prorotypical, but that's my style. Remote switches that need local control for switching will be able to use them by permission of dispatch.

On my portable layout I use O gauge for the reasons I mentioned earlier. I need the features and flexibility for the automation I do. While some of those things can be accomplished with modifications to 027 switches, I just find it easier to use the 022 and 072's the way they come out of the box. One thing you will never get with 027's is interchangable motors, though that isn't usually much of a selling point.

[Jim Duda]

How are "real" switches operated? By an electric motor controlled by a button operated remotely from the switch...or manually like brianel does it? Which is more prototypical? Hmmmmmmm...

[brianel027]

Of course, you could be a true nut like me and operate your manual switches via some springs, wheels, and nylon fishline. Works well for me. No fuss, no muss, no problems with wiring and less expense with the same end result.... control of switches from the front of the layout.

That's 027 hi-railing done my way.

[spankybird]

Bob your correct, need more coffee

[lionelsoni]

Tom is right that you need to disconnect the anti-derailing feature. But it is just about as easy to modify the switch for accessory voltage, in which case you can eliminate all buzzing and danger of burnout by supplying that voltage as dc from a 5000-microfarad capacitor, charged through a 100-ohm resistor, and fed through a diode from the ac accessory voltage.

Tom, "cycloid"? Do you mean "solenoid"?

Those K-Line switches would make it too easy and take all the fun out of it for me! The challenge is mostly getting past the Lionel switch machines.

[spankybird]

Dave, You will have to disconnect the cycloid from the switch to stop the bussing or disconnect the de-railing feature. It is the de-railing feature that causes the noise. Not connect the remote won’t help.

[spankybird]

Bob, I think we might be tied for first place. I run both Railking Alleghany and Challenger.


As for long passenger cars, we have a set of the Chessie Special






As for long flat cars, I have this from K-line



None of the engines, cars or switches (K-line low profile) had to be modified to run these.

I will have to measure the length of these cars when I get home.

tom

[FJ and G]

Tom,

I like the photo of that K-Line turnout. Unfortunately, mine are all Lionel 027 turnouts.

I've got a question perhaps you or others might be able to answer, although it should probably be in a separate post. Here goes.

I dislike the buzzing sound of trains running over the turnouts and wi***o make them manual. To make them manual and stop the buzzing, do I just not connect the 3-wired device switch to the turnout?

Also, thinking about removing that big bulky box that houses the magnet things as that gets in the way of some of my longer freight cars.

Has anyone tried this before? I know that question is kinda basic beginner question, but thought I'd ask anyway.

[Anonymous]

I also use O-27 track with O-42,O-54 and some O-72 curves. I have changed all but 4 (hopefully will be replacing these soon) of my Lionel O-27 27" switches over to the low profile K-line O-27 27" switches. They have caused alot less derailments and look a whole lot better. I cut popsicle sticks and painted brown for extra ties and for ballast I mixed dark gray paint with sand texture and just painted it on.

[Anonymous]

Good Morning Steel Rails,
For what you are doing and what you have planned, using 0-27 track will build you a fine layout. It will be a layout you will enjoy for a long time. You will have alot of fun building it and even more fun running your trains on it. Take care and have a great Tuesday.
Jimmy

[ben10ben]

My personal preference is for standard O track. Although O27 is closer to scale, I just like the way it looks. I also love O22 switches, especially the ones that I pay $5 each for that work perfectly and look just as good as the $50/set ones with a little work.

If you should go with O, don't overlook K-line(at least while they're still around). Some of their sections(such as O72 curves) sell for as much as $2-3 less than a comparable Lionel piece, and the difference really adds up when you're pricing a layout. They also offer preformed curve sizes up to O120, while Lionel stops at O72. As far as I know, K-line is the only company that makes a 14 1/4" straight section, traditionally known as an "O72 straight" to match the leg of the Lionel O72 switch. This can save you a lot of time cutting fitters, and they're also perfect for floor layouts where two normal length straights won't quite fit.

The most important thing, though, is what you like. If you prefer the look of one over the other, than go for it.

As for already having some O27 track, I still have a couple hundred sections of O27 in my closet that get pulled out from time to time. I switched four years ago. Much of my O track is good condition postwar that I pay $.75-1.00 a section for, as well as $5 junk bin switches that work fine. I bought one nice set of postwar O22s for $50, as well as one nice postwar UCS for $10. I picked up a couple more UCSs and O22s in a junkbox that I paid $25 for, and then resold the remaining O27 for a little over $30 on Ebay.

Good luck on whatever you decide.

[Anonymous]

BTW, you can convert the O-27 style switches to constant voltage without too much trouble.

[lionelsoni]

I claim the O27 big-locomotive prize, for running a Rail King Big Boy, a Lionel 2321 Train Master, and a Lionel 773 Hudson through Lionel O27 switches. And the big-car prize, for 15-inch Rail King Superliners, a Lionel 9100 15-inch extruded baggage car, and a Lionel 51600 16-wheel flat car. (Of course, they are all more or less modified.)

[brianel027]

On a side note, as evidenced above, the ladies are not the only ones impressed with size of Spankbird's locomotives.
[:D]

I suppose I may have falsely fallen for that old saying that "it's not the size of the locomotive that matters." I love my little K-Line S-2's, but I gotta say, they bring me little respect.
[:D]

[Anonymous]

I use O27 track, O42, O54 and O72 curves. Lionel O42 switches, balsaood ties and kitty litter for ballast.
I like it!

[Buckeye Riveter]

QUOTE: Originally posted by spankybird

A couple of things is, price and alot of good used track out there. The K-line switches also run on fix power and has lights.
Oh yeh, you can run some good size engines thru the K-line switchestom

Tom really means MASSIVE sized engines. I've seen them run.

[Anonymous]

Like some others here, I, too, prefer O27 tubular track (although I'm using Atlas track almost exclusively these days). I just like the smaller rail profile. I will be using O27 tubular for the Marx all-tinplate layout that I plan to build becauseI want that layout to have a decided toy train look.

[spankybird]

I felt my ears burning. OK so I like 027 track with K-line switches.

Click on the web icon for the one web page and also check out www.spankybird.shutterfly.com
and one more link
http://www.parisiconsulting.com/tompescha1.htm



A couple of things is, price and alot of good used track out there. The K-line switches also run on fix power and has lights.
Oh yeh, you can run some good size engines thru the K-line switches



tom

[Anonymous]

My opinion regarding tinplate track is that I prefer the classic look of the Lionel 022 remote switches (O gauge) over their 027 counterparts but prefer the lower profile of the 027 track over the much taller O gauge.
The height of the rails on the ogauge track is so high that from certain low viewing angles it looses any and all resemblence to prototypical railroad trackage.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I used to be a fan of 027, but I switched to O gauge long before the selection of 027 style switches hit the market. The main reason for the change was to get the 072 switches. I still like the features and operation of Lionel's 022 and 072 design best. Fixed voltage operation, turnable and interchangable motors, and even the classic appearance with the lanterns are all factors that make them my choice of tinplate style switch.

[waltrapp]

A comment about Brian's comment of "This might be a concern if you had a floor layout that was being pulled apart and put together frequently."

I have a Christmas-only layout meaning that I pull it apart and put it together frequently, if once every year for 30 years can be called 'frequent'.

I have pieces of O27 track that span those 30 years and they're still going strong - as long as I remember to tighten up the 'hole' that I extract the pin from.

- walt

[brianel027]

I too vote for 027. I never understood the criticism that 027 is a little more flimsy that regular 0. This might be a concern if you had a floor layout that was being pulled apart and put together frequently.

As said above, on a smaller layout especially, the lower height profile of 027 is much better looking. And on a comparison level, K-Line's redesigned 027 switch is far superior to the traditional MPC design being used by Lionel for the past 35 years. Though some of the older Lionel switches like the 1024 I believe are an improvement over the MPC era ones.

You can also easily match the Gargraves switches to 027 track using their connector pins for that purpose.

And guys like Lionelsoni will wholeheartedly recommend using the older MARX switches. The only problem with the older all metal ones, is that it is a challenge to get access to the solenoid since the sheetmetal cover is tab-folded into the base. But these switches work like champs too when you can find them in excellent shape.

Not to mention the 34 inch diameter 027 track that MARX once made and can still be found with some effort. Beats me why no one (you'd think K-Line would have done it years ago) introduced the 34 inch diameter track again.

[Dr. John]

I prefer the look of O-27 track. K-Line makes excellent low-profile swithces in 27 and 42 inches. Since you don't plan on running very large engines, you should do fine with O-27.

[Anonymous]

The differences between O and O-27 are the rail profile and thickness of the steel sheet used to make the track and ties. O gauge track has a much higher profile to accomodate pre-war deep flange wheel sets. If you can find track/switches of the desired radius in O-27 profile, use it. It's cheaper and looks closer to scale.