Securing Tubular Track and Ballast Question

[Jumijo]

I'm going to be placing my O27 tubular track on top of 2" foam and want to secure it so that it doesn't move or come apart at the joints. Will latex caulk (or Liquid Nails project adhesive) be enough to hold it in place, or do I need to find 2"+ screws to fasten it to the plywood base?

To ballast: Wet water or alchohol mist of area, spread ballast, followed by glue/water solution? Will all that water make the tubular track rust?

Jim

[Anonymous]

If you're going to ballast your track (with secured ballast) you won't need to glue or screw the track to your tabletop or roadbed surface, unless you want to hold it in place temporarily prior to applying the ballast. The glued ballast will hold the track securely in place, and no screws or other methods are necessary. I do go over the (tubular) track with a cloth saturated with WD-40 after the ballast has dried, and then wipe it clean later on with track cleaning fluid, but I'm not sure this step is even necessary.

You should not experience any rusting problem with the track because it really only stays wet for a relatively short period of time. I have used the glued ballast technique on many layouts over many years, and in various scales including O27 with tubular track, and have never had a rust problem.

[Anonymous]

Do not screw into the plywood--you will undo the noise-dampening effect of the foam.

[wrmcclellan]

jaabat,

I agree with the guys above. My layout is Lionel tubular track on layers of 1/2' foam over plywood. Once it was ballasted, there was no need for screws and believe me, your track will not come loose easily unless you went too light on the glue/water mixture (I used 4:1, 4 parts water to 1 part cheap white glue). I used matt medium in the past. I do not recommend it.

A couple of suggestions:

1. Wipe your rails (not the ties) with WD-40 before gluing the ballast. It will make cleaning the rails of glue residue a lot easier.

2. Use some screws or other fasteners to secure the track for ballasting and then you can remove them when it is completely dry.

Good luck!
Roy

[Jumijo]

Many thanks for the advice, guys.

Jim

[cnw1995]

Jim, just to be different, I laid the track down - directly on the foam - actually on the 'grass' sheet that's actually green sandpaper-like paper I got in rolls by Lifelike - and then ballasted around it after I got everything running, with real little rocks. Didn't glue anything down because I wanted to be able to replace track or change it if I wanted to more easily. Nothing

[Jumijo]

Go on, Doug. I'm listening. [:)]

Jim

[cnw1995]

Whoops, don't remember what else I was going to "say" - Frankly, Jim, I wish I ballasted at the same time as laying track instead of 2 years later because I underestimated how dirty it would be - even after cleaning it. I had to use plenty of 'elbow grease' to wipe off the dust atop the rails because I had just sprinkled it over everything and they carefully swept it in a nice ballast mound. Common sense in retrospect but I'm still doing this by 'feel' - everything works well now. The track looks kind of cool sunk a bit in the ballast instead of floating higher atop it.

[Anonymous]

Unless a temporary layout is really what you're looking for, you will be far better off by "fixing" your ballasted track in place. For one thing, it prevents ballast from getting into locomotives and switch mechanisms, and possibly jamming or damaging them. Furthermore, ballast that's glued in place will hold your track firmly without the need for screws or other devices. Finally, it also makes it far easier to clean your track without running the risk of scattering loose ballast all over the place.

Strictly my own opinion and preference, but if I wasn't going to use glued-down ballast, I wouldn't use any ballast at all, and would likely go with a track system that has a built-in roadbed.

[brianel027]

I've experimented with layout building using nothing but pink foam for the layout surface and smaller 1x2, 2x2 premium pine for the frame (I say premium because you do not want warped or bent pieces to begin with). This is the way to go in these modern times where layouts may need to be unexpecteldly portable due to the changing economy. National stats show people move more these days than ever before in the nation's history because people tend to not have the same job or employer for life as they once did.

To adhere 027 track to the foam surface, layout out your track where you want it to be. Then use scrap pieces of pine or bass wood cut to the size and thinkess to fit underneath the metal tie of the track. Glue this to the layout surface using wood glue. You could even use 3M carpet tape if you are planning to add ballast.

Elmer's Wood Glue diluted with water is the most economical way to attach ballast and have it be permanent. Using regular white glue will allow the ballast to come loose again with several repeated applications of dilluted glue - which almost always is needed.

Note, when using pink or blue styrofoam, that you need to use the special type of Liquid Nails to not disolve those foam boards. The pink stuff is more dense, solid and rugged than the blue and I would wholeheartedly recommend the pink over the blue, though the pink baord may not be available in all parts of the country. It's readily available here in the northeast.

[Anonymous]

thanks so much to the people who have posted ideas here. I, too, am just about up to the ballasting step in my layout building and I've been wondering what to do and how to do it. As for the ballast itself, I've seen ads in the back of CTT that offer to sell ballast. I will see about getting samples from these companies. I notice that many people have whitish colored ballast on their model RR's. We have tracks and a Norfolk-Southern-Get-Off-Our-Property Railroad yard down the street from me. I think I'll wander over there and try to "study" the ballast and maybe get a few quick pictures before they threaten me, sue me, have me arrested for smiling on a cloudy day, etc. I get the impression that ballast here in the northeast is more of a grey and light brown, almost a reddish brown and grey type of thing instead of the sun-bleached whiti***inged thing that one sees in the midwest and great central prairie. I guess I can get aquainted with the color of actual ballast on the railroad tracks around here, and then, when I get released from jail (for breathing near the Norfolk-Southern property without their permission...) I can try to buy ballast that matches that color. I guess i could just use aquariam gravel. Is that what most people do, or do you buy "ballast"?

[brianel027]

Reading, I used Woodland Scenics Ballast, course grade in several mixed colors.

I forgot to add above, once you cut and glue the pine scraps beneath the metal track ties, then you can screw in the track. Once you add and glue the ballast it will secure the track very well.

I also altered my uncoupling tracks, unsoldering the connected wires and rewiring the tracks before securing them so that they will work on auxiliary power instead on the normal track power.

[Anonymous]

"I also altered my uncoupling tracks, unsoldering the connected wires and rewiring the tracks before securing them so that they will work on auxiliary power instead on the normal track power."

Yes, I want to do that too! How do I do it?

Also, do people ballast the uncoupling track sections too? I have Lionel O gauge track, not O-27 so that uncoupling track sections are solid black plastic with embedded rails. Can I put a slight layer of ballast between the rails, or am I asking for trouble with that?

[cnw1995]

I would say you are asking for trouble. Might not the ballast gum up operating cars or engines, like Allan mentioned? I kept it far away from switches and UCS.

I used 'free' ballast which our town scatters on the snowy streets during winter. The small rocks and sand collects in great masses at the bottom of my driveway. I filled a huge bucket with it, sifted, washed and dried it (took far more in time and effort than buying some from Woodland Scenics or other CTT advertisers but I enjoyed the experimenting).

Brianel, why do you put the pine scraps beneath the track - are they serving as additional ties? I use coffee stirrers that I've colored light brown - with a marker - and glued together in stacks as ties.

[brianel027]

Doug, when working with pink foam, it is the most solid of the styrofoam boards, but still will only hold track screws poorly. By placing and then adhereing the pine scrap below the metal track tie, you give yourself something solid to get a track screw into, so the track stays in place while you do ballasting. The ballasting will then hold the track down very well. I make additional ties out of balsa wood, spray painted brown, and then using a black magic marker to do the ends and edges. I cut the ties to the size of the metal 027 tie at the top, not from the bottom of the tie where the tie is folded and curved (to prevent cuts on hands).

Reading, from what I recall, there's a wire that is soldered from the electro-magnet to the outside rail. You need to unsolder this. As well you need to remove the folded metal plate that covers the bottom of the UC track (at least with 027) and get to the other wire that is connected to the screw. I run both wires direct to auxiliary posts of the transformer (with a momentary button on one wire of course).

Even before I went to DC track power operation, I found using the track voltage to activate UC tracks just wasn't enough. I'll also add as far as 027 track goes, even though K-Line has really improved their 027 switches, the Lionel UC tracks work and perform better than the K-Line ones - for whatever reason. And the older pre-MPC Lionel UC 027 tracks even work better.

With the Control/UC tracks you mention, I don't add any ballast to those - I've just let them be. My 027 switches have had major work done to them, where I've cut away the entire base save for the actual track, so I ballast those right up to the outside rails with no ballast inside the rails... the brown of the base with the molded ties suffices for me.

[lionelsoni]

Brian, as I have mentioned before, I use popsicle sticks for O27 ties. They are 3/8-inch wide, narrower than the 1/2-inch O27 tie tops. However, it is difficult to notice the difference in the ballasted track; and the overall impression is of a narrower tie. Even so, 3/8 inch is twice the proper scale width!

[brianel027]

Bob, the great thing about this hobby is the "creative" element. Even with the so-called toy element and the 3-rails, there's still a prototypical sense of using things for your layout that you already have on, like popsicle sticks. This is the exact principal that nearly all real railroads utilize.

I measured my balsawood ties and I cut them 1/4-5/16's wide. I think the track looks better with more additional wood ties, even if they are a little narrower than the metal ones already there. Even with my own custom engine, car and stucture building - I take a lot of liberties with the so-called "scale" ruler. When I build an engine or kitbash one, I never even consider scale... I go totally by "feel" and how the unit will look with the existing rolling stock I already have. I'll use the old Lionel Alco FA or the superior looking K-Line version... the loco is obviously not scale in height or length. Yet it has the look and feel of the real thing.

Guys, I also do ballast completely my uncoupling (only) tracks as well as add ties. I've never had any problem with rust when adding the ballast.

[lionelsoni]

Brian, it sounds like we're actually doing about the same thing with the tie sizes.