Lionel 18130 Santa Fe F3 AB - Burnt Wire! HELP

[FEClionel]

Last weekend I was on Ebay when I came across a new in box 18130 "2343" Santa Fe AB set for 1996 for $325. Well after inspection I noticed that the black wire runing from motor 1 has the insulation melted off. I was going to run this item but now I am affraid I will ruin it. Do any of you know a good service station. The service station near me charges $50 an hour. Or does anyone know what could be wrong with this item?

[csxt30]

Here is one , which is a long time member on the forum here. In fact he has some posts just lately on repairing. Hope you will give him a try ! Thanks, John

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxt30

Here is one , which is a long time member on the forum here. In fact he has some posts just lately on repairing. Hope you will give him a try ! Thanks, John

John, please don't repost Jerry's card. Jerry is a good KID, but I have serious doubts about his "repair business", and his qualifications. He isn't even out of high school. I think it was wrong of him to post that "card" on the forum, and it needs to stop before someone gets hurt. That someone includes Jerry.

Regarding the F-3 with the burnt wire, by Jerry's own request, he only does postwar. He also lives in Wisconsin. I think FEC can find someone closer, with more experience, even if they are more expensive.

FEC, it sounds like you opened up the engine in order to find this problem. Have you tried to run it? With the shell off, try it, but be ready to shut it down if it doesn't behave. I doubt that you will cause more damage, it sounds like it has all been done. The question is why? Something has caused resistance in that wire to get it to heat up and melt the insulation, but without more information, it could be a number of things. Is that a pullmore motor? Does it turn freely?

[FEClionel]

Big_Boy_4005

Yes this is the model with pullmor's. Neither motor will turn freely if I try to turn the wheels. --- This could get expensive - the front motor looks like it may have burned out the eletrodes(don't know if that is the technical term) they look darker than the ones in the rear motor. I feel like I got ripped off - any suggestions?

I also found out this morning that a local train shop is no longer a service station here in Ft Lauderdale. Any ideas - I want this item to fun as new in the next few weeks. I have already started my Christmas layout and this was going to be my main engine.

AHHHHHHHH I'm so frustrated - I should have purchased a Williams F3!!!

[FEClionel]

Ok I did get the motors to turn - How does the quality of this engine compare to the new F3's made in China. I have the Wabash PWC and its great I also see a difference in the motors and the gears. Does any know which model is a better runner.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Actually, the wheels on F-3's won't turn freely under normal circumstances, because of the worm gear inside. By "electrodes", I think you mean brushes. This could be an indication of bad armature windings. That would lead to the motor freezing, and could easily fry that wire. The modern stuff doesn't use as tough of wire as the old stuff.

Have you ever done any motor work? 2 screws should grant you access to the armature, but don't let those brushes fly away. If it is the windings on the armature, it is probably a simple matter of getting a replacement, educated guess $20. Then you have to fix the wire.

If you don't feel up to the challenge, a good repair man shouldn't have to spend more than a half hour to fix this. A service station should have the part in stock, as it is fairly common.

If you decide to take it in, ask if they have a one hour minimum charge. They might. If so that is all the more incentive to become a do it yourselfer.

Don't feel bad, I'm beginning to think eBay is where lemons go to become someone else's problems. I have a few fixer uppers on my workbench, and TMCC problems don't get fixed as easily as mechanicals.

[Big_Boy_4005]

This is the reason I have nearly sworn off pullmore motors, in favor of cans. Pullmores are always repairable, but it always seems like they need more attention. The cans are generally cheap, and you chuck em if they go bad (which isn't often).

One would think that quality wise, your engine should be better than those made today. Check the box, I think it is one of the last model years made in the US. Wasn't 96 the year that Kughn sold the company to the current regime? Then it took them a year or so to move it away to China.

I have 4 Williams F's. Real work horses. My problem is I need TMCC for my current layout, and F's aren't modern enough. I'll have to think about retro fitting them, but I have other engines that will be done first, like my Williams Amtrak Genesis.

[Chris F]

A wiring schematic is shown in Supplement 35 (available online from the Lionel website) under the F3A part number, 18128 (601-8128-000). You might want to print out a copy to help with troubleshooting. I had one dual Pullmor loco with a cold solder joint at a bru***erminal, and the increased resistance burned a wire. Another loco was miswired and the motors were running in opposite directions. Apparently Lionel was trying to help its customers improve their soldering techniques.

Elliot, Mr. Kughn sold Lionel LTI to Wellspring and Associates on September 29, 1995. On February 1, 2001, Lionel LLC announced plans to close the Michigan factory.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Thanks Chris, my history gets a little fuzzy after about 93.

[andregg1]

I know the only one here in Forida.
Is Ready to Roll 831 NW 143rd St. 305 688-8868.

[FEClionel]

The only problem with ready to roll is that they are not a Lionel Service Station. Does anyone know of the best service station in the country?

[andregg1]

I live in Delray Beach may be I can help you if you want.
I repair all my trains.
Andre.

[FEClionel]

Andre
Have you been to
DEPOT HOBBY SHOP
518 LANTANA ROAD
LANTANA, FL 33462
They are an authorized service station. I really want this engine to run for the next 50 years. I really considering Williams now more than ever - maybe a GG-1 will be my next purchase.

[andregg1]

FECLionel:
Yes, I went there, is nothing personal, but I don't like.........
Andre.