storage

[Anonymous]

what is the best way to store long term, vintage toy trains??

[Anonymous]

If you have the original box use it, but that's a rare thing. I usualy wrap my trains in news paper and then store them inside of a old shoebox. If you can use a SEALED box like a Tupperware plastic/rubber container thats what I'd advise for more long term storage. One other realy cool thing Ive seen is shelf displays. Why hide em' when you can show em'!
Good luck!!!
Icemanmike-Milwaukee

[Algonquin]

I find original or reproduction boxes are the best to store most trains in. Additionally, I save (the original) or add a clear plastic bag (Baggie or Glad food storage bags or equivalent) around the locomotive or car. This is generally enough to protect them from physical damage. I used to wrap them in newsprint. However, old newsprint tended to come off and make the cars look dirty. I don’t think current new print has this problem, but I have not used it.

Condensation is a major concern for the storage of trains. All air carries water vapor. The amount of water vapor air can hold, is very dependent on the air temperature. The warmer the air, the more water it holds as vapor. The amount of water vapor in air, relative to its maximum capacity at its current temperature, is called Relative Humidity, and is usually specified as a percent of the maximum capacity.

Water in air in vapor form will not harm our trains. The concern for our trains is when the air temperature drops, and the air can no longer hold the amount of water vapor it is carrying. As the temperature drops, the relative humidity of the air rises until it exceeds 100 percent. At this point, the water vapor in the air begins to condense on surfaces. In a basement, this can be on the cold walls or anything stored in the cold basement that is at the cold temperature. This fine moisture causes rust on the various metal surfaces associated with our trains (gears, exposed wires, track, etc.). In addition, if the area is dark, mildew can also result from the condensation.

A dehumidifier removes water vapor from air, effectively reducing the relative humidity of the air, such that the air at the colder temperature will not be forced to condense.

As an example, take a summer day with an outside air temperature of 80 degrees F, with a relative humidity of 80 percent, and a basement temperature of 65 degrees F. When the air from outside flows into the basement, it will cool to the basement temperature. This will force water vapor to condense out, since air at 65 degrees cannot hold as much water vapor as the warmer outside air. The opposite occurs in the winter. The colder air from outside, say, 30 degrees at 70 percent relative humidity, would warm up to the higher indoor air temperature 65 degrees, and the air is capable of holding more water at the higher temperature. The relative humidity drops, and the air feels dry because it will actually absorb water.

The goal in preserving trains in a basement is to maintain the relative humidity below 100 percent for the coldest spot in a basement. Generally, a safe room air relative humidity in a basement is about 65 - 75 percent. The exact number required depends on the condition of the basement. If the basement is unfinished, the walls and floors will be much colder than the general room air temperature. Boxes stored against these cold surfaces will generally cool down to those temperatures. A lower general room relative humidity is required to ensure that moisture will not condense out of the air at the cold surface temperatures.

If the basement is finished and well insulated, the temperatures at the room walls will be more near the general room temperature and a higher general room relative humidity can be maintained without condensation occurring.

It should be noted that basements are not the only storage areas that can be a problem. Even a dark, cool closet in a living area, can be a problem in humid parts of the country, when the dwelling is not air conditioned to keep the relative humidity low.

One thing to remember, unfinished basement walls and floors are generally much colder than the basement air temperature. The dewpoint in the room must be maintained at a higher temperature than the wall or floors to ensure moisture will not form. A box of trains stored on the floor or next to the basement wall will be colder than the general room temperature. If the box temperature drops below the dewpoint, condensation can form inside the box(s).

I hope this information is useful.
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Tim Pignatari

[Anonymous]

Tim:

That's a great explanation--I learned a lot from it.

Let me ask you about storing trains in an attic. From your explanation, it seems that in the summer there should be no condensation problem at all, since the temperature in the attic is probably higher that the outside ambient temperature, which would increase the air's moisture capacity. How about in the winter? Is it the same situation (moisture capacity is similar to or greater than the outside air's?)

Thanks

Tony

[Algonquin]

Hi Tony,

Most attic storage problems relate to overheating and thermal cycling which causes deterioration of wire insulation and drying out of grease. Condensation is much less likely to form in an attic since it is generally warmer than the outside air and there is no cold heat sink like a basement wall to condense the air vapor.

Generally, during winter time even if the air moisture content is relatively high, attic temperatures are generally warmer due to solar radiation and heat loss from the house below such that condensation does not occur.

Regards,

Tim Pignatari

[Wdlgln005]

Would it make sense to add some insulation to the ceiling of an attic space? Why not add a layer of pink board before finishing the room, then get a roofing contractor to have adequate air vents for the space just under roof shingles??

[Anonymous]

It probably makes sense to at least add an attic fan that's temperture activated. Not sure how much of a difference it will make, but I figure it's gotta bring the temperature down at least 5 or 6 degrees.

Anybody got any idea how much cooling you get from an attic fan?

Tony

[Algonquin]

Hi Tony,

An attic can get to temperatures of 150F on a hot summer day. Attic fans can lower the temperature in attics by about 50F. See the second article in the attached link for more information on attic fan effectiveness.

http://www.atticfans.com/

Regards,

Tim Pignatari

[Anonymous]

Tim:

You & Bob are veritable fountains of knowledge! I love it!

Tony

[Anonymous]

I had to store my trains for years. Here's how I did it. I bought extra large letter/legal paper boxes with lids (you can get these at Staples usually) 25x13x9. They are equivalent to TWO standard boxes side by side. I placed the orignal train boxes on a layers of Newspaper and stacked so that the lid DID NOT touch the box lid. No cruching allowed. I filled the gaps with Styrofoam peanuts and then added rice to the top of the mix. About three fistfuls. Ok, this is wierd eh? Well I learned that trick from someone who had done it well before me. I have his trains today. And you would be stunned to see how well preserved they are. The Styrofoam removed Acidity and the Rice moisture. If I recall the reasoning correctly. The paper layer at the bottom prevent any mildew / moisture. I had them stored for 15 years. Always is a CLIMATE controlled environment, spare room off off site storage. Then in my basement. NOT CLIMATE CONTROLLED! None of the boxes or trains came out worse for the term in storage. This years everything came out of storage. Everything has been recently looked over, no rust, no off fading, no cracks in the paint. If I have to store them again, I'll do it the same way.