Wanted to Repair- Postwar Lionel

[Dave Farquhar]

Jerry, there's a book I very much recommend you read. It's about business, not trains. It's called Start Small, Finish Big by Fred DeLuca.

Basically DeLuca was a 17-year-old who grew up mostly in public housing. He wanted to go to college but didn't know how to raise the money. He had one friend who had some money, so he asked him. The guy said, "Start a submarine sandwich shop." He offered to be his business partner and wrote him a $2,000 check to get started.

The name of that shop was Pete's Subway. It has since been shortened to Subway. Needless to say, DeLuca finished his degree but didn't end up doing what he thought he would be doing with his life.

Basically the book is DeLuca sharing his own experience along with 14 others' experiences starting a small business and growing it into a big one. Some are phenomenal success stories (Kinko's), while others were less so.

I definitely wish you well. Repairing trains isn't going to make you rich (at least not quickly), but it's much better than working fast food. You're doing something you love, and you only have to answer to your customers, as opposed to having to answer to your customers *and* management.

[1688torpedo]

Hello Jerry ! Good luck with your business venture. Maybe someday it will grow. One has to start somewhere in order to get ahead. Don't worry about getting sued by Lionel for using a Santa Fe logo on your business card. One Time a few years ago A group of kids had a Lemonade stand and made some money from it. Well the town taxman wanted a portion of the kids money. the townspeople banded together and needless to say the Tax collector relented due to the humiliation he recieved. I forget where this happened, But it was in our newspaper here in town. Good Luck.

[Boxcar Bill]

Hello Jerry


I have been off line for the last month and was reading past topics when I saw your post. I say Go For It and have a good time. I've been repairing trains for a long time and thats one way i support my habit. If i may, let me give you some words of advice. First make sure you let the customer know that your repairing and not Restoreing their trains, get as much info about the piece your repairing as possible. Try to run it before any repairs are made, remove the cab, work the E-unit, gently pull on wires to see if loose or broken. If you find the problem then you know what to fix. But don't stop there, now give the piece a complete inspection and note what needs repaired or replaced E-unit smoke unit etc. etc. Then give the customer the complete cost for the repair.

Now about the cost, I do a flat rate instead hourly it works better for me and I also charge a minumin fee if the person does not want it fixed.


And last lets talk tools. If your going to do quality work buy quality tools
it pays in the long run

[Anonymous]

Chief, Thanks![:D]

[ChiefEagles]

Elliot, glad you changed your mind. Good of you to admit you were a little tough on the kid. Almost typed a rebuttal but changed my mind. It all worked out to the good of both. Jerry, keep up the good work and the energy. One day we will all say we know the "Mike Wolf" of Jerry's Train House. [;)][:)]

[Anonymous]

Frank, I would love to repair your 2026, but I would probably need a wheel puller to do that.

[prewardude]

I'm sorry to hear that Jim is scaling back (so to speak). I've been to his shop a couple times, and he was always a pleasure to deal with.

Good luck on your repair business, Jerry!

Regards,
Clint

[Frank53]

You learn something new everyday.

What I learned to day is this - Jerry doesn't want to fix my 2026.

Regardless, good luck with your new venture.

[Anonymous]

Dan, that is the Jim I am talking about.

Well, I shoud define this a little bit. His buisness is not shutting its doors, but I think only his service dept is.

[Anonymous]

I think Frank and Jim had great advice for you Jerry. I'd also add that you should offer and specifically state on your business card, that you will give a 100% money back satisfaction guarantee. That would make people more likely to try out the "new guy".

When LL Bean started his business making "Maine Hunting Shoes" in 1912, his first product hgad some flaws and nearly all of them were returned for a refund. He honored the guarantee, and that led to the best reputation for product and service excellence in the retail world. No one exceeds the reputation of LL Bean, and the company has grown from a one-man operation to a global organization with annual sales in excess of $1.4 billion.

Also, I welcome your posts here about the new business that you are starting, but I hope that you will also advertise more widely.

Lastly, Jerry, I was a little worried about something you mentioned: You said that you got parts from Jim's Train Shop and that "he is going out of buisness, and he REALLY wants to get rid of his inventory". Are we both talking about the Jim's Train Shop owned by Jim Sutter in Homer City, PA??? He's great to deal with and I hope he's not going out of business. Maybe you meant a different Jim's Train Shop.

take care and good luck,
Dan

[Big_Boy_4005]

Well Jerry, I see you have put some thought into this. I'm actually rather impressed by your tool list. I don't own a wheel puller or an arbor press either. There have been a few times over the years when I wish I had them.

I used to work in a hobby store that was a Lionel service station. Lionel made my boss keep a large inventory of parts. Like Bignumber99 said, today a parts inventory isn't as big of a deal, as is knowing where to get them quickly.

I'm still a little worried about sending trains back and forth through the mail. I'm not sure how much business you can really generate long distance like that. Do you have a hobby store near you. If so, find out who does their repairs. If they don't have anyone, and they may not, ask them to refer people to you. Advertising a business like this is going to be tricky. Throwing money at it isn't really a good option, not much bang for the buck.

Good job on changing the card. You may want to drop the name Lionel, and substitute "toy train" just to be totally safe.

I'm sorry I was rather hard on you last night. You handled the situation with great grace and maturity. Well done!!!

Don't get discouraged if people don't beat a path to your door. Most people doing train repair don't do it as a full time job. Back at the hobby store I mentioned earlier, the repair man came in once a week. His real job was tuning pianos.

[jimhaleyscomet]

Jerry,

I wish you the best. I agree with the previous post that says to price yourself higher than you might think. I would go with a "maket based" hourly rate ($20 per hour or higher). You can always charge for less hours then it actually took (while you are on your learning curve). The other issue is to assume that everything will take 20% -50% longer than you estimate. That is just the way all business seems to work.

Now one final bit of advice that has been huge to me.

A customer has certain expectations.
A project/business has certain realities.
As long as you keep the customers expectations equal to the project realities you have a satisfied customer.
If the realities do not match customer expecations you will have problems.
If the realities of the project change then it is important to adjust the customers expectations immediately.

Here is an example. Customer says please fix this train. You estimate to him it will take 3 weeks total for shipping and 2 weeks for you to fix it. His train comes in and you (or UPS) drops it on the floor and one of the wheels breaks. That new wheel will take you 2 weeks to obtain. Rather than ordering it in and then hoping you can turn around the project quickly and returning it just a tad late (that is what I would be tempted to do)....Call the customer the day you have the problem with the solution you propose (in this case a 7 week turn around). He will probably modify his expectations that his job may take 7 weeks instead of the original 5 weeks without complaint. Or perhaps you might offer a loaner product. Whatever the final solution, he will very much appreciate your honesty when you admit to the mistake and your iniative in solving the problem for him.

Remember ---- Keep expectations equal to reality....then everyone will stay happy.

Good luck!

Jim H

[lionelsuperotrack]

Jerry - Go get 'em!!! Repairing most postwar is not rocket science and having your own business is where it is at. Most important a passion for ones work and a desire to be the best is essential. Don't let anyone discourage you.

I will contact you off line with 2 loco's that need tune up.

Very best, Mike Spanier ([e-mail])
TCA 85-21856

[Anonymous]

The deed is done....

[Anonymous]

i wish him luck, tho i agree this prolly isnt the best place or way to shop for customers...

Jerry, try one time adds in a local big town Sunday newspapers.... also the wallstreet journal, USA today.. NY times , LA times

bigboy is right, if your not paying royalities to Lionel, you better drop the big L from your card.... i would find a single black color sillouette of a choochoo instead.

parts arent much of an issue these days... with priority mail and internet...... tho finding a parts company that has all the listed internet parts is another ussue :)

[Anonymous]

Elliot, thanks for your concern. I would be pleased if you could give me some locomotives to prictice on. I have consented with my parents, and my parents are very motivated with my buisness. I was thinking of getting rid of the Lionel logo just to save me some pain ( just in case)

The 44 tonner was my most troublesome repair yet, I finally found that all the windings on the armature were shot. I suggested to wedi to give the armature to the motor doc for him to rewind it.

I have experience from working on my R, cattle loader and car, milk car, barrel loader and car, and my 2026 and tender. I have also worked on some of my buddies Lionels at my Ogauge club here in town, which includes a KW, a 2025 and tender, and a rotary beacon. JUst now after starting, I have worked on a 2333 F3 set, a 675, and the 44 tonner.

I have a pretty good solid parts inventory being mailed to me by Jim's train shop,( he is going out of buisness, and he REALLY wants to get rid of his inventory, I got most of my parts 80% off) it includes the following...

35-Pickup rollers
a 1 pound package of -screw and bayonet bulbs...14 and 18 volt...large and small globe
20 -transformer rollers
all the basic ones, about a half pound-Screws, the standard lionel self tapping ones and other common ones
- 30 large, 25 small, Binding post nuts
12 of each green and red R type, 12 of each ZW res and green-Jewel covers for transformers and lighted lockons
30 feet of each- 4 and three conductor wire
20 feet of 18 gauge, 30 feet of 22 gauge-super flex wire ( already ordered some)
5-Transformer cords
5-smoke unit elements
2-whistle motor relays
50 -brushes, whistle motors and regular locomotive ones
-coupler plates, sliding shoes, roller type
1/4 pound-"horseshoe" rivets

I am also going to buy a actual Lionel wheel puller.

The arbor press and wheel cups are going to come later. A mini vice I have suffices right now.

My tool list goes as follows,

-Weller "pistol" type soldering gun

-Mini vice

-a nice craftsman set of mini screwdrivers

-tv tuner cleaner

- elctric motor cleaner

-goo gone

- official lionel lubricants

- mini pliers

-wire stripper

- ultra fine sandpaper ( for polishing commutators and contacts) 150, 800, 1200, 1800 grit

-small hammer ( the small ones you find at dollar stores that are not properly sized for caucasion men) they are perfect for small jobs, like repairing trains.[;)][:D]

- vice grips

I do have a Greenburg manual for servicing lionel trains , its one of my favorite books.






The bottom line for this repair buisness is that I have to start somewhere, the way I learn to repair these best it get hands on with them, open them up, and look at there mechanisms. Learn how they work, why they work etc.

[Frank53]

QUOTE: Originally posted by redneckgoober

BigBoy, we're not in North Korea here.

there's a dead giveaway! [;)]

[Anonymous]

BigBoy, we're not in North Korea here. If Jerry wants to solicit business for train repairs, then let him. This is a free market economy. Why should age matter? Who says you know more than he does?

[Big_Boy_4005]

John, I'm not trying to humiliate Jerry, and this isn't an ego trip, contrary to what you might think. I deliberately made my words strong, because I see this whole thing leading to nothing but trouble.

We as the adults here have a responsibility to watch out for the younger members and give them the best advice we possibly can. This repair business is serious stuff, and has implications well beyond what Jerry understands.

Jerry being a minor, exposes his parents to liability for his actions. Are his parents aware of his internet activities? What happens when packages start showing up on the family's doorstep? What happens when something is lost or damaged in transit? The list of ugly what ifs can go on all day. This is no longer child's play.

My guess is that one law has already been violated on the business card. Has permission been secured from Lionel to use their logo?

I don't want to discourage Jerry from his love of trains, I want to protect him and his family from his youthful exuberance.

If we, the adults on the forum, put our heads together, we should be able to find a better way for Jerry to channel his energy. If Jerry wants to learn to fix trains, I'm all for it, but not when it comes to soliciting the members for business.

I will go look in my basement, where I know I have an engine or two that need work. Nothing fancy mind you, but a potentially good runner (once reassembled). He can have it and keep it, if he can fix it, and if his parents approve.

So, who else is willing to offer up "guinea pigs" to further our young friend's learning?

[lionelsoni]

Postwar wheels are generally sintered iron, not diecast zinc. Their flanges usually fail by chipping, which is pretty much unrepairable.

I wouldn't "pound away" on a bent axle on my "clamp's anvil". I would lay a bent postwar axle across the open jaws of a vise ("clamp"?), spanning the opening, roll it until the bend is up, and tap it gingerly with a hammer until I can't detect the bend any more as I roll the axle. I would not be optimistic about straightening a locomotive axle; but a car axle would be no big deal.

After repairing steam-locomotive wheels and axles, getting them back together properly quartered is a major challenge, especially if any wheels have been replaced.

[Big_Boy_4005]

No offense Jerry, I know you are a good kid, but I don't think you realize what you are getting into. It's one thing to fix your own trains, something I do a lot, but it is something else again to fix other people's trains for money.

What tools do you own?

What manuals do you have?

What experience do you have?

What kind of parts inventory do you have?

Anyone can make a business card and say they repair trains, but actually doing it to the satisfaction of real customers is a totally different story.

Furthermore, advertising a business is not a proper use of the forum. I don't want to discourage you from being in this hobby. I know that it is expensive, and you want to earn some money, but I don't think this is the way to go about doing it.

It's OK if you are angry with me for saying this. I wanted to say it sooner, but I thought it would all blow over like it did the first time I saw you post your card. Unfortunately, it hasn't. I really think it should stop before someone gets hurt. I'm saying this because I care.

Your Friend,

Elliot

[Frank53]

okie:

I assume Jerry is a young fellow finding his way. He has to start somewhere. In the early going many of the projects he undertakes are going to be "first time I seen that!".

However, like all of us, he'll figure it out and have that problem under his belt for the future. If any of us had the time, we could get a reference manual and fix just about any post war train, as there really isn't a bunch of magic in them.

This enterprise won't be without pain either. Jerry will get a project that will stymie the heck out of him, but he'll figure it out. And if he can't, then he should employ rule #1 - be honest. If something has you baffled, and you are not going to be able to meet your customer's expectations - say so. "Hey Frank, this thing has over a barrell. I tried everything I know, tested and retested and it's still doing the hula.

" The only thing I can do for you is suggest you replace the entire motive unit, or send it to my colleague - Joe Lionel's Repair Service. There's no charge - I wasn't able to fix it to your expectation."

That apporach would earn my respect in a big way.

Also Jerry - build your network. Contact folks who sell post war parts and introduce yourself. "I'm starting out in this business and I need a resource for reliable parts. Are you the guys for me?"

Find people who fix trains and line them up as your back up. When you can't do something, have a way for you to broker a solution for your customer.

I am obviously very supportive of young folks getting out and making something happen for themselves instead of whining about how they can't find a job.

Lastly Jerry, don't sell yourself short, if you are in this business then be in it with both feet. Don't explain yourself away as a young person trying to do this. This is your business - this is what you do. You aren't what you are to your customer - you are what you say you are. Then it is to you to live up to the persona you have communicated.

[okiechoochoo]

Jerry
How much experience do you have. I think I saw you posting on a forum where you had a Lionel switcher that was running in only one direction and you were seeking advice as to what was wrong. It made me wonder how much experience you had. Anyway, I want to wish you well in your business. I have an excellent postwar repairman who can take junk twin motored diesels and make them run like new. For your information it usually runs about $120 per locomotive, including parts if any.

[spankybird]

Frank53, very good sound advise for Jerry. My hat off to you.[;)][bow]

[Frank53]

Jerry:

Just my opinion and for what it's worth.

You may be trying to attract business with a very low price - however, a ridicously low price may have folks dismiss you as being not competent. Raise your price to at least $20.00 per hour.

Take into consideratino you have a learning curve. Charge on value, not on meticulously kept hours. You may take two hours to do seomthing that should take 45 minutes. Charge for an hour and consider the rest as an investment in future value billing.

When someone offers you work that you are confident they could probably do themselves, there is a reason. In my case, I don't want to play around with it. I can sell the hours that I would spend on that repair for five or six times what I am willing to pay you. Plus, I am passing you the liability. It becomes your job to do the repair properly. If I do it, and screw something up, I've screwed it up and now I am further down the road. If I send it to you, it's your job to do it and do it right.

Use parts. You may be under the impression that the axle can be hammered true - but why spend all that time getting it almost right when you can go buy a new axle and replace it? You know the axle will be true, and you won't be explaining away to me why it still "kinda shimmeys" a bit. Like wise the wheels. Buy some wheels and charge me for the parts and labor. You have a very satisfied customer, you spent a lot less time. If the wheels cost you $10.00 - charge me $15.00 for your trouble in finding them

So, let's take another crack at this:

Hey Jerry - I have a 2026 with a bent axle and some dented flanges - want to tfix it for me?

[Frank53]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ChiefEagles

See Frank, you got a reply. You were up too late or early one [posting time]. [;)]

LOL Chief! [:D]

[Anonymous]

Best of luck with your new business, Jerry! Hopefully you'll meet a lot fellow enthusiasts and make some good money to buy trains through it.

[ChiefEagles]

See Frank, you got a reply. You were up too late or early one [posting time]. [;)]

[Anonymous]

Frank, I bet you could do that yourself. All you need is a small hammer, your patience and maybe a torch. The best way to get those flanges true is to heat them up till they are dull red, and then use your hammer to pound them out straight. If you try forming diecast metal( wheather pounding it or bending it) while its cold, it will be most likly snap.It is natually very hard. But when you temper ( or heat it up) it will become much softer and easier to handle.

Axles are easy, just put it on your clamp's anvil and pound away till its straight. Just don't give the axles to many HARD blows in the same spot, or you will have a FLAT axle!!![oops][:(!]