This Caboose Is Screwed Up...And That's Why I Bought It!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wrmcclellan


Sask - and the coupler is upside down too! Maybe that was an attempt to match the upside down litho side!

Actually, it is the right way up. Unlike Marx and others, the couplers on Hafner trains have hooks that go up and not down.

[markn]

og ot yaw -ksas_retalpnit

[wrmcclellan]

PBJ - it is definitely banned from NCAA playoffs!

Sask - and the coupler is upside down too! Maybe that was an attempt to match the upside down litho side!

[TrainFreak409]

That is a great find. Some of the factory screw ups can go for a pretty penny. Make sure you keep a hold on that caboose! [tup]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

My guess is that the litho work was done while the metal was flat, but between there and the stamping, it got turned around.

That's how all tinplate trains and toys were made. The lithography for several of a certain part would be done on a big flat sheet of tin and then stamped out and formed. There might have been ten or more caboose sides on one sheet. I have in my collection a tin sheet from the Marx factory with the walls for six gateman houses lithographed on it.

QUOTE: On closer inspection, I see that the windows on the correct side are not symetrical. On a normal car, are they supposed to be arranged with 3 windows toward the cupola end? This would indicate that there was a right and left litho printing, but only a single stamp, since each piece has a side and an end of the car, with two seams on opposite corners.

Is the bottom of the car open? Is there any litho on the inside?

Hafner had only one printing for both sides. On a normal one, the three windows are at the cupola end on one side and at the other end on the other side. On a different caboose of the same style, the lithogrphy included large lanterns (which in real life would both be hung at the tail end of a caboose on a train) which end up each on a different end of the caboose.

Unlike the streamliner Hafner cars, the body and base are seperate on this one, so you can't see inside without taking the top off. I only just won this on ebay and so don't actually have it yet to check anything other than the pictures. During the war, if there was an error in the lithography on a sheet at the Marx factory, they would just flip it over and use the other side. Hafner used a great deal of recycled tin, but their claim to fame is not reusing their own tin, but getting if from other sources. See Carl's post. Graphics from pop and beer bottle caps, paint cans, etc. show up rather frequently on Hafner items. This style of caboose wasn't made until the postwar era, however, so I think it's unlikely that there would be recycled tin.

I can definitely say that there are more variations on Hafner trains than any other manufacturer. This is a result of the many cost-cutting measres that they tried during the war (as well as experimenting with colours and things throughout their history). There were quite a few items they made at this time that they didn't bother to do lithography on and just painted plain colours. Another example are the cabooses they made by taking streamlined oil tenders and punching out windows in them and adding a cupola on the top. To collect every variation of every item made by Hafner in the war years would be impossible becuse of the many unique items of which there were only a few made. New ones are popping up all the time.

QUOTE: Originally posted by pbjwilson

It's a Hafner - Wyandotte. I beleve Wyandotte toys bought Hafner in the late 30's? and continued producing their trains. Not sure on that - Sask would know -Great little trains with cool graphics. All wind-ups!

Actually, Wyandotte didn't buy out Hafner until 1951, so all items made by them are from the postwar era. The Commodore Vanderbilt-style engine, tender with formed coal inside, square boxcar, and caboose like mine are all done with tooling that Hafner came out with in the postwar era. All other items are done with tooling that Hafner had in the prewar years. Marx bought the Hafner line from Wyndotte in 1956. The main reason they did this was just so they could get rid of a competitor, as Hafner trains were the only real competition with Marx's 6-inch tinplate line. Marx shipped all of the Hafner tooling to their factory in Mexico. There were some sets made exclusively for the Mexican market using Hafner tooling, which are extremely rare. How I'd love to get my hands on one of those!

I wonder if the Hafner tooling still exists somewhere down in Mexico. The Mexican factory wasn't part of the deal when Marx sold out to Quaker Oats in 1976 and it continued producing toys after Marx went bankrupt under Quaker, so there is a chance that it may. It would be nice to see new Hafner items being made like the New Marx trains.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pbjwilson

Carl T.
It's a Hafner - Wyandotte. I beleve Wyandotte toys bought Hafner in the late 30's? and continued producing their trains. Not sure on that - Sask would know -Great little trains with cool graphics. All wind-ups!

Gee Paul, they couldn't make one like that today, now could they. Politically incorrect to say the least.[swg]

[pbjwilson]

Carl T.
It's a Hafner - Wyandotte. I beleve Wyandotte toys bought Hafner in the late 30's? and continued producing their trains. Not sure on that - Sask would know -Great little trains with cool graphics. All wind-ups!

[choochin3]

PBJ,
What kind of loco is in your picture?
That front is too cool!

Carl T.

[pbjwilson]

Nice find Sask! The more I collect of Hafner the more I like it. Something to be said about toy trains that were really toy trains. The condition on yours seems to be superb.

[choochin3]

Nice find Sask!
I have a old Hafner caboose with printing for Grapex soda bottle caps inside.

Carl T.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Very interesting Mitch. It was actually stamped and folded backwards. My guess is that the litho work was done while the metal was flat, but between there and the stamping, it got turned around.

On closer inspection, I see that the windows on the correct side are not symetrical. On a normal car, are they supposed to be arranged with 3 windows toward the cupola end? This would indicate that there was a right and left litho printing, but only a single stamp, since each piece has a side and an end of the car, with two seams on opposite corners.

Is the bottom of the car open? Is there any litho on the inside?

[Anonymous]

Thats really funny Sask!

[Anonymous]

I thought I'd share with you my latest ebay find. This caboose is made by Hafner and normally is a common item. This one, however, is a major exception. Take a close look at it. The sides are made out of two pieces of tin, each forming one side and end. One of these accidentally got put in upside down. Hafner, like Marx, was very frugal, especially during the war years. If something like this accidentally happened, but the car itself was still useable, it was put into a set and sold. Another thing to note is that these cabooses normally have windows lithographed on the cupola, but this one doesn't. There certainly can't be many of these around and I'm thrilled to find it, especially at only $23.15!