Knowledge Is Power: An Ebay Cautionary Warning

[Anonymous]

I have a very good friend who has one of the largest train collections in the province. With the exception of a few very rare pieces, he has almost every item catalogued by Lionel in the postwar era. He also has a phenominal selection of Marx and an outstanding assortment of prewar Canadian-market tinplate trains in CP and CN livery. I first met him almost five years ago. On that first visit, during the course of our conversation, I made some casual remark about the trains I'd buy if I was rich. My friend quickly noticed this remark and told me some words of wisdom that I will never forget. He said that in the hobby of toy train collecting "Knowledge always beats the heck out of a pocket full of money!" I honestly cannot think of better advice for anyone in the hobby. Here is a very good example of why having knowledge and using caution when making purchases is so important.

Look at the following two pictures. Before you scroll down below them, guess what kind of a train it is.




If you guessed a postwar Lionel 1862 General locomotive you are WRONG! Take a good close look at it. This engine looks a lot like the Lionel model and even has the number 1862 and "General" nameplates on the boiler, but it is in fact an HO model from a battery-electric train set that was made by the Japanese company Toy Nomura (TN) in the 1960's.

This engine is listed on ebay as "LIONEL TRAIN SET ENGINE " THE GENERAL " VINTAGE NR" and is under the "Lionel: 1945-69" category. The URL is: http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-TRAIN-SET-ENGINE-THE-GENERAL-VINTAGE-NR_W0QQitemZ5991105278QQcategoryZ4146QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem . It is currently at $40.39 with 14 bids and has just over an hour left to go. $40.39 would be a cheap price for a junker General to use as parts or for a fixer-upper, but for this engine it's a total rip-off!

The set this engine is from was obviously copied from Lionel's General set. It had a tender and two passenger cars that looked like and had the same numbers as Lionel. They were made in 4- and 8-wheel versions. However, these were cheap toy HO sets that weren't intended to fool anyone. I collect these trains and own almost every set that TN made, most of which are boxed (including two sealed unopened sets). These trains are collectable and do have value, but there is no way that a junker engine like this is worth anywhere near $40.39. $4.39 would be much more realistic.

The seller also has some Marx 6-inch cars and from reading his descriptions, it is very clear that he doesn't know anything about trains. I certainly don't think that he is trying to cheat people by passing this off as a Lionel O gauge model, but is simply just ignorant about the subject.

The starting bid was 99 cents and the only people the be blamed for getting ripped off are the bidders themselves, who obviously assumed that this was a Lionel without bothering to take a closer look. This a perfect example of how knowledge is power. May this be a reminder to always exercise caution when bidding on ebay. Ebay is a great place, but you have to be smart about it.

[choochin3]

Sask,
I have a train set that I belive is made by TN.
It is powered by a silver-grey Santa Fe F7 diesel loco.
The motor works but it is missing the motor shaft gear.
The set also has a blue Santa Fe boxcar,a red NYC gondola #575,and a orange B&O caboose #5956.
The set also includes a red battery box and tin track with plastic ties.
I purchased this set for $10.00 at a train show but I would like to see it run.
Would you happen to have a spare gear I could buy from you?

Thanks,
Carl T.

[prewardude]

I think you're be a little too easy on the seller, Sask. He plainly states that it is a Lionel engine. Since it obviously isn't, he is guilty of making false claims about the item. Whether he did it intentionally or not, I don't know, but it is a misleading statement at best, and an out-and-out lie at worst. This is exactly why I don't buy anything off of Ebay - I've heard and seen too many horror stories.

Regards,
Clint

[Anonymous]

Sask,

Just wondering if you used the "Ask Seller a Question" option to let the seller know they mislabeled the item? If he is an honest seller, he would appreciate the opportunity to avoid selling a false item. If he's not honest of course, he would probably have ignored you, but at least the question of his intent would be answered.

[Anonymous]

I've had over 550 transactions on eBay with only 2 "bummers". My advice is: don't buy anything that is supposed to "run" just to save a few bucks. I got a MTH operating firehouse on eBay which DID run when I got it...about 8 times! NOW what do I do with it? Bought a new Lionel operating Barber Shop from my usual dealer(N. Smith), did'nt work, but got a replacement same day. Joe

[Anonymous]

i emailed the buyer and let him know he was ripped off

[Anonymous]

I would have e-mailed the seller, but I only first found this auction when it was almost finished and so e-mailing him that late wouldn't have done much good. I have e-mailed ebay sellers in the past to correct their mistakes. Had I come across this earlier, I certainly would have done so.

Carl,

Your set is TN and you got a very good deal on it. It is one of the much rarer TN sets. I have one that I purchased on ebay and in the years that I've been on ebay, I've only seen one other set come up. They also made a set with a New Haven F7. I'd love to be able to supply you with the gear you need, but due to the scarcity of these engines, I don't have any spare parts for them. If I ever come across one of these gears, I'll be sure to let you know.

There is almost no information about TN out there and almost all of my knowledge about them I've found out myself from my own experiences in collecting. I'm interested in finding out about any variations there are in sets and would be much obliged if you could answer some questions about your set for me. Even though they were made by the same company, there are some differences between my ATSF and NH diesels. Is the coupling on yours attached to the rear truck or is it screwed directly to the body? In the TN steam sets, there was a small metal third-rail pickup on the bottom of the engine. There were two pieces of track with four rails and when the engine ran over them, it would cause a station to whistle. I don't believe they included this feature in the diesel sets, but my ATSF F7 has the third-rail pickup on the bottom of the fuel tank. Does yours? Also, on the caboose, does it actually say "B&O" or just "BO"?

[choochin3]

Thanks Sask,
I sure wi***here were more info on TN and other Japanese toy trains.
In the past year I have been getting more interested in trains made in Japan.
To answer your question,the rear coupler is part of the rear truck,and the caboose is lettered B O.
If you have anymore info on these trains like when they were made , etc..... let me know.

Thanks,
Carl T.

ps, My diesel also has the horn contact under the fuel tank also.(I was wondering what that was for)

[okiechoochoo]

Originally posted by BigNumber99

i emailed the buyer and let him know he was ripped off
[/quote

I might be mistaken here, but if you are an ebay member and you contacted the buyer and tried to persuade him not to buy you are interfering with an auction and ebay could kick you off for that. I don't think it matters if the seller is honest or not. Since the auction apparently had ended I am not sure what the rules are but be sure of what you do before you act. There are legalities involved here although not probable for this amount of money.

All Lionel all the time.

Okiechoochoo

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