Williams Train Question

[AKKevinT]

Does anyone know when the folks at Williams Trains will post up a new catalog on the web? They are still showing their 2004 catalog currently, whats up with that? Thanks folks.

[Anonymous]

Williams doesn't do a very good job of keeping their web site up to date. For most confirmed fans of Williams products (I'm one of them), that doesn't pose much of a problem because all-new introductions from Williams are kind of few and far between. And, once they are introduced into the product line, they stay around for a good long time, and do not disappear with each new catalog. Furthermore, they provide their customers with regular brochures via snail-mail that pretty much keep folks informed of what's available.

I know this doesn't help the new customer all that much, but it's the way Williams has operated for a good many years. They have a small staff of about three people, and maintaining an up-to-date web site does not seem to be high on their priority list.

Williams is one of the smaller players in the O gauge niche, but that is largely by design. Jerry Williams simply likes to keep things on a measured course, and he's not in the business to knock out any of the major players. He offers an attractive, durable, reliable, and affordable product that's backed by the best warranty in the business, and I imagine that word-of-mouth from satisfied users is his greatest sales and marketing tool.

My guess is that once the dust settles in the increasingly turbulent (and demanding) world of O gauge, Williams will be among the few survivors. That's a good thing!

[dougdagrump]

[#ditto] [tup]

[3railguy]

In addition to what Allan is saying, I don't think Williams has added anything of significance to their product line since 2004. This probably doesn't justify an updated website. Instead of cataloging and producing a few new roadnames every year like the big three does, they just advertise a whole smear of roadnames and subcontract empty pigeon holes when the demand warrants. I do scratch my head as to why they haven't done Texas Special E-7's. The real Texas Special only ran E-7's and Williams is the only company doing 3 rail O gauge E-7's.

[Anonymous]

If it wasn't for williams,I don't think I would have gotton back into O gauge.They made it affordable for me,& there products run great. They take a licking & keep on ticking. EASTER

[ChiefEagles]

For $25 a year you can get on their Club membership and get sales fliers all the time [also discount]. With the $25, you also get a free car. Also contact Marty at [e-mail] He is great to work with.

[4kitties]

Amen, ChiefEagles. Bless Marty and other great dealers like him. I feel so fortunate that he lives close to me.

Joel

[Warburton]

It's my understanding after to talking to a WIlliams employee when I ordered something last spring, is that they are not making any more Golden Memories stuff for the time being. Now, that may have changed, but that was my impression. As far as their other offerings, I imagine they are about due for some new announcements. Everything I've got from them (all Golden Memories) has been A+.

[MA and PA JCT]

Maybe I can shed some light in to this discussion.: Williams Web site is not updated due to the fact that there is not anything TO update. All the products are the same, the only difference is the year, 2005 as opposed to 2004.
Nothing has changed on the "golden memory" line. What ever is in the 2004 catalog, is still available.in 2005 (well, not all, some are sold out).
3rail: Your wish MAY come true. I put the bug in Jerry Williams ear through Larry Harrington, even sent a picture of the TEXAS SPECIAL E7 to them. The response was "positive". WHEN will it be made? Time will tell......

EASTER: Keeps on ticking?...YEP! AND remember the "lonely MAYTAG repairman" commercial? Williams has a "lonely Train repairman". Repairs are getting to be Less and less as the years go by........

WARBURTON: Taking the 'GOLDEN MEMORY" AND running with it, I think you will see more "roads" for the F3 line. They'd be foolish not to. With the new molds being made, more units will have to be sold to pay for the expense. I'm personally hopeing for an F3 WESTERN MD, and the correct color B&O ROYAL BLUE color scheme. PRR, NH, RI,
AMTRAK, Chessie, Conrail, WC, just to name a ferw, would sell.....

***Yawn***crud, almost midnight, gotta go!

[Buckeye Riveter]

I wonder why Williams has never considered following Athern's HO scale marketing scheme where the engine is a kit. It would seem to be a nice fit for them.

[Bob Keller]

Back in the 'olden days' Williams did offer some prewar-style items as kits and the modern E60 was at first a body-only kit.

[trigtrax]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ogaugeoverlord

Back in the 'olden days' Williams did offer some prewar-style items as kits and the modern E60 was at first a body-only kit.

Well that explains a lot, I've got a Williams E60 Amtrak with 2 Lionel geep motors and trucks and a Lionel e-unit inside..

[3railguy]

Marty, thanks for sharing on the Texas Special E-7's. I will surely want a set if they do in fact make them. And 72 foot streamliners. A set of Burlington Northern F-3's with a strobe light on the roof would be nice too. Not sure how well they would sell. Williams is a likely candidate for a no nonsense SD-7 which I think would be a mainstay like their Trainmasters. They already have the flexicoil truck tooling.

[Anonymous]

hey chiefeagles,is that free car a chevy,ford, or dodge. ???????

[brianel027]

I have never worried about William's is doing next, because what they are doing right now is the right thing. While many of the other companies are at eachother's throats competing for sales of high end products that are too expensive for many, Willilam's (and RMT) are offering basic quality trains that are well made, reasonably priced and appeal to the broadest sector of the hobby.

William's offers simple products that Lionel and K-Line somehow believe won't sell. Yet Willliams (and now RMT) manages to sell simple non-command locos in Conrail, Norfolk Southern and other roadnames beyond the same old same old 4 or 5 roadnames that Lionel and K-Line always put on the same comparable basic types of locos.

Notice too, that most of the legal wrangling that has consumed so much of the business end of the hobby has been over high-end technology and advances. These companies are spending enormous amounts of money in development (and later, legal fees) over products that are aimed at the smallest (but sometimes the most vocal) sector of the train buying market. I've read where 40% is the highest very best estimate of the market that uses digital control of some kind. That means it could very well be less than that, and more than likely is. I'd be willing to bet it's still only around 25%. Of folks I actually know, it's not even 10%!!!!!

I applaud Williams and RMT for making the kinds of trains that suit the broadest possible base of the train market. Neither K-Line or Lionel have made the basic quality, reasonable priced kind of engine Williams or RMT does in Conrail or Norfolk Southern in more than a decade if ever.

I'm certain it is the broad roadname selection along with the basic affordable reliable quality that appeals to the 60% of the market that want and can only afford this type of train product, as well as the other 40% who find these products are easily, affordable upgraded.

A winning forumula if you ask me. If William's had the distribution network and the name recognition Lionel has, I think amazing things could happen!!! [:)]

PS: Even though CTT listed the small size of the recently reviewed Alco FA as a "con" I'd say the small size is a "BIG plus" and a big selling point for those of us who want and can't run locomotives that are not full scale in size. I really dislike it when less-than-full-scale proportions are listed as cons. I'd doubt full-scale modelers would even consider products like this and others, as there is no shortage of full scale products they can choose from. Even Williams makes a scale sized Alco FA.

[Jumijo]

Although I don't own any, there are several Williams locos I'd like to own. The S2 Turbine, the 2056 semi-scale Hudson, the 726 Berkshire, and the Santa Fe F3s w 60' luxury liner set.

I was told that Williams locos won't run well with a transformer that is rated under 90 watts. All I presently have are CW80's.

Jim

[brianel027]

Jim, the Williams locos use a 6 amp circuit board for the reverse unit. The 90 watt recommendation is for proper sequencing of the e-unit. The locos will run with something a little smaller, but the e-units may not function as reliably.

[3railguy]

QUOTE: I was told that Williams locos won't run well with a transformer that is rated under 90 watts. All I presently have are CW80's.

That sounds about right. Using a good ammeter, I got a 2 to 3 amp reading with a Williams SD-45 or Rectifier pulling an average train. When I deadheaded them, I got a 4 to 5 amp reading. 3 amps works out to around 50 watts so a CW80 is maybe as small as you want to go.

[Anonymous]

"Even though CTT listed the small size of the recently reviewed Alco FA as a "con" I'd say the small size is a "BIG plus" and a big selling point for those of us who want and can't run locomotives that are not full scale in size. I really dislike it when less-than-full-scale proportions are listed as cons."
---------------------

I agree! I sure don't view the smaller-than scale sizes as a "con" by any means. Might not appeal to the scale-oriented crowd (or reviewer), but my guess is that those folks still constitute a small segment of the overall market, and certainly a small segment of the group that consider themselves toy train enthusiasts.

[Warburton]

My local dealer here in Cleveland says he call sell a slew of reasonably priced Santa Fe F-3s and postwar-style Alcos at Christmas time every year. Lionel refuses to make them (I'm talking postwar style 2343/53 and 218 Alcos etc.) so he buys Williams and K-Line and sells a bunch to nostalgia-seeking buyers before the holidays. Lionel is missing the boat by not offering them on an on-going basis (without TMCC or Railsounds and for less than $400). Guess the "Big L" doesn't care. According the Williams, their units are made at the same factory in China (Sanda Kan) that Lionel's are, too!

[ChiefEagles]

Easter, free Beamer. [;)]

I had two Williams SD90's I passed on to LAZ as I'm running all my modern stuff in remote control. Lashed together, they could pull a house. [;)] Never once did they get their reversing units "crossed up". Very smooth oprators.

[3railguy]

QUOTE: My local dealer here in Cleveland says he call sell a slew of reasonably priced Santa Fe F-3s and postwar-style Alcos at Christmas time every year. Lionel refuses to make them (I'm talking postwar style 2343/53 and 218 Alcos etc.) so he buys Williams and K-Line

Lionel is doing 2383 Santa-Fe's this year in lieu of 2343/53's style F3's. The problem with Lionel doing 027 218 style Alcos with stamped metal frames is the tooling. They sit too high and the motor design isn't the greatest compared to Williams and K-Line. The 2023 style Alcos with diecast frame and field wound motors are expensive to make and sell. Neither proved to be good sellers.

[Warburton]

Right. But Williams is making a bunch of the 2023-style Alcos in every conceivable roadname, so we'll see how they sell. As far as the 2383 F-3s, I know they're making them, but only as part of the 2544w set remake with a $700 price tag. What my dealer friend wants is basic F-3s from Lionel without TMCC, etc., that he can sell for less than $400. He sells the Williams AA now for $325. He believes he can sell some every year as customers come asking for them at Christmas time year after year. I just don't think Lionel sees any real profit in making them. The Lionel name on something does still mean something, however.

[Anonymous]

Although there have been a few potholes along the way, my personal feeling is that history will record that Jerry Williams' business plan was one of the most sensible in the O gauge segment the hobby. He kept the business small, growing only as the expanding market could absorb what he offered. He developed a line of attractive and sought-after products that could be offered over a long period, in a variety of roadnames, and priced to fit just about any budget. He avoided the whiz-bang bells-and-whistles technology that has added to costs, created turmoil in the industry, and evoked both consternation and increasingly harder-to-meet demands from finnicky consumers. Now that the market has, by all indications peaked, he's in an enviable position.

The only area of concern I can think of is what happens to Williams Electric Trains after Jerry Williams? He is truly master of his own empire, and I have no idea what his future plans may be or how long he continues to provide us with these reliable toys. Is there someone waiting in the wings to continue the line? Or, would he simply close-up shop and spend some time in a carefree retirement? It's not something that bothers me overly much, though, because I'll continue to purchase and enjoy his products for as long as I can, confident that the Williams trains I currently have and enjoy, along with those I may buy in the near future, will serve well for the remainder of my lifetime.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Allan Miller

Although there have been a few potholes along the way, my personal feeling is that history will record that Jerry Williams' business plan was one of the most sensible in the O gauge segment the hobby. He kept the business small, growing only as the expanding market could absorb what he offered. He developed a line of attractive and sought-after products that could be offered over a long period, in a variety of roadnames, and priced to fit just about any budget. He avoided the whiz-bang bells-and-whistles technology that has added to costs, created turmoil in the industry, and evoked both consternation and increasingly harder-to-meet demands from finnicky consumers. Now that the market has, by all indications peaked, he's in an enviable position.

The only area of concern I can think of is what happens to Williams Electric Trains after Jerry Williams? He is truly master of his own empire, and I have no idea what his future plans may be or how long he continues to provide us with these reliable toys. Is there someone waiting in the wings to continue the line? Or, would he simply close-up shop and spend some time in a carefree retirement? It's not something that bothers me overly much, though, because I'll continue to purchase and enjoy his products for as long as I can, confident that the Williams trains I currently have and enjoy, along with those I may buy in the near future, will serve well for the remainder of my lifetime.

Allan,
Well put! I hope Williams is around until my train purchasing days are over.[;)]

[3railguy]

QUOTE: The only area of concern I can think of is what happens to Williams Electric Trains after Jerry Williams? He is truly master of his own empire, and I have no idea what his future plans may be or how long he continues to provide us with these reliable toys. Is there someone waiting in the wings to continue the line?

I would think Huntington would do a good job.

QUOTE: Right. But Williams is making a bunch of the 2023-style Alcos in every conceivable roadname, so we'll see how they sell.

Like I said, Lionel would have to re-tool. The Williams 2023's are a different animal internally using cheaper can motors. Lionel may feel there is already enough out there and aren't willing to risk the tooling. That is what I was getting at.

[AKKevinT]

I just had a minute and wanted to check if I had any responses to my question concerning the Wiliams website since I have not had a chance to check-in and visit the forum lately. Thank you to everyone for all the responses.

I have their Alaska GP9 and dummy unit set and I am very happy to have it. I agree that the Williams products are very well made and I appreciate their reasonable approach as a business.

I will keep purchasing their products and look forward to seeing their new products as they are available. Thanks again to everyone who has ressponded so far.

[lionelsoni]

As for size, the Lionel F3s are modeled to scale. After they switched to vertical motors, they were able to get through O27 switches, due to Lionel's moving the center bearing toward the middle of the model.

[phillyreading]

I own about six Williams diesel locomotives and would buy Williams over Lionel for both price & quality. Never did I have a problem with a Williams product that Williams would not fix for free. I feel that Lionel is only interested in making a profit at any cost, look at the law suit it filed against K-Line, also what did Lionel do to MTH supplier in Korea but steal plans!

[Anonymous]

I'd like to add to Phiilyreadings comment on William's repairs....They are also fast.
I bought a NH EP5 a couple of years ago and its horn didn't operate. I shipped it out to them on a Monday and got it back on Friday! That's service! [:D] My hat of to UPS too!