What sells Lionel trains?

[jimhaleyscomet]

I was recently reading a book about the history of toy trains and noticed some interesting things (Facts I believe).

*Lionel was not first with trains.
*Lionel was not first with electric trains.
*Lionel sold a "different" gauge engine and called it "standard". Great Marketing.
*Lionel sold the consumer on the idea that cast iron trains were junk and that lithograph cars were junk (even though they were more detailed than Lionel's). Great Marketing!
*Lionel started with a set with less detail and much less costly than Ives.
*Lionel's early competitors (Marklin et all) did not see them as a threat because their product was less detailed and cost less.
*Lionel went for mass market production techniques.
*Lionel's early product was rugged (for its day).
*Lionel recognized that they should market to kids (unlike their early competitors) and made a catalog that spoke to the kids. Great Marketing.

Fast forward to today.....
*Lionel items often cost more than competitors.
*Highly electronic trains can be fickle.
*The Lionel catalog is primarily made for adults.
*Most Lionel engines are too expensive to allow kids to touch.
*Most Lionel products have tons of detail.

It is interesting that their market is almost exactly opposite of where they started.

Jim H

[Anonymous]

Toy trains are still being marketed towards the same people that were targeted years ago. Now these folks are retirees. The million dollar question is what will happen to this hobby when this generation passes? Since this is not a hobby marketed towards children, what will become of our beloved trains?

[Anonymous]

I will gladly take them. Sure I can't afford the fancy bells and whistles now but I should be able to get a pretty good selection of those if I can stand the waiting game. I think most of you have 25 years+ on me. Take good care of your trains in the meantime. So unless I get hit by a car....

I pay pennies on the doller so don't expect those "investments" to pan out. ;)

[3railguy]

Lionel made trains in the pre, postwar, MPC, and LTI eras with a level of detail and quality at a price the market would bare. Lionel had a high end line that was expensive and aimed at adults along with a low end line aimed at kids. 700E's and 408E's were very expensive in the 1930's

In the late 90's, this became a problem. So Lionel moved production overseas.

Today, Lionel is making trains with a level of detail and quality at a price the market will bare. Just like they were 50 or 80 years ago. They have a high end line that is expensive and aimed at adults as well as low end trains aimed at kids.

Apart from some trivia you mention, things haven't really changed in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

i like the train master control. when lionel came out with this technology I jumped onboard. Atlas makes very detailed enginges and rolling stock as well. I buy lionel engines and atlas engines exclusively. I got stuck with some MTH proto one engines before MTH dcs. I sold off my MTh engines and stuck with lionel and atlas. As far as price goes if you wait long enough for lionel engines you can get a good deal. I have bought close out engines at 40 % off list. For example I purchased a SPSF SD 40T-2 I got for 295.00. A great engine at a great price. My trains are very detailed and because of that are not to be touched by children or anyone else for that matter. Lionel atlas and MTH are marketing trains for a particular demographic (Male age 18 to 80) who don't mind spending a couple of thousand dollars a year on trains.

[cnw1995]

What sells Lionel trains? N.O.S.T.A.G.L.I.A.

[Blueberryhill RR]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cnw1995

What sells Lionel trains? N.O.S.T.A.G.L.I.A.

[:)] And that is the truth !!!
I don't think that any other name , in electric trains, has as much charisma.

[brianel027]

"Dad, can we run our trains on your layout?" That line from the K-Line catalog with the battery powered set does sum up one difference between the train market of yesterday and today. When I was a kid, I had what was then, an expensive Lionel F3 that I ran on my layout. My dad certainly took enjoyment in it. But I think at that time, fathers bought trains more with their son's in mind and took enjoyment in that and participated in the hobby they had started their son on. I think today in many cases, it is the other way around - that it is the dad's train layout and the son participates and hopefully takes enjoyment. I do wonder though, how many son's are allowed to run dad's expensive top line trains? Yesterday, the top line expensive trains were built with less detail and more ruggedly. I think those trains were a little more prone to withstand the handling of a young boy.

I do agree with CNW and Blueberryhill that nostaglia helps sell trains, no matter what brand. Though Lionel does have the most "magical" name of all, even though the success and inroads of the other companies shows that quality and price are not far behind nostaglia.

In my mind, what sells Lionel today are brand name, availability and overall selection. The Lionel name is still the most recognizable of any of the train companies, especially to the beginner or novice. And though dealer networks are not what they once were, it appears to me that Lionel is still available at more shops than the others. A dealer is probably more prone to stock Lionel and then others, rather than the others with no Lionel.

And of course selection: all the other companies have selection too. But Lionel's selection really does cover the price, feature and size range better than anyone else. I do have my quibbles with Lionel, but for the past few years they have continually offered traditionally sized starter cars at a faily reasonable price in new roads names every year - this year finally in some current roads too. And though the selection is in favor of the more expensive scale end, there are always a few beginner locomotives. For all its lacking, the basic Lionel 4-4-2 starter steamer is still a decent performing engine for any kid's train layout. The Lionel sets are still the best value money wise in the business, offering the best price with a reasonable amount of extras. This years new add-on packs are a great idea, as is the catalog listing/breakdown of the individual items cost versus buying the add-on package.

One folks enter the train shop, they may be inclined to buy another brand. Certainly K-Line and MTH have good starter sets too. And no one comes close to the decent value and roadname selection of the RMT Beep, which obviously has appeal to both adult and younger operators. But I do think it is the Lionel name that gets folks into the shop in the first place. Lionel is the name people have heard of.

I know from my many years of doing train shows with a layout that had strong appeal to families, there is most certainly the nostaglia element. I did find that many families were not as gung-ho about the digital command systems and sounds as one might be inclinded to think. There was unquestionably an appeal to the hobby based on the potential simplicity, family involvement and making things yourself.

Granted my layout did not have all the electronic extras on it. But I found kids and parents were quite impressed with the simplicity of what I had done. The kids were rather amazed that turning a hand crank or pulling on a level connected to fishline could actaully make something happen. Or that a barrel could roll down a series of ramps by gravity into a waiting train car. Kids don't see things like this anymore, and especially from boys, there was always the expected question "That is so cool... how did you make that?" When parents saw how excited their kids were about this, and realized I had built this layout on a shoestring budget, they too became very interested.

There is no doubt over the years I've brought many people into the hobby and am very proud of it. And whether it be K-Line or Lionel, I had folks tell me they couldn't tell the difference except for the name on the box. But again, I think it was the Lionel name that got them to even consider looking at the other boxes.

[tmcc man]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cnw1995

What sells Lionel trains? N.O.S.T.A.G.L.I.A.

Doug is correct, and i will keep this hobby alive[:D], for all of us train enthuaists, and i am not just saying that

[3railguy]

QUOTE: What sells Lionel trains? N.O.S.T.A.G.L.I.A.

For some maybe but I like to judge products for what they are. For awhile, MTH focused on DCS reissuing models made from early tooling. Atlas and Lionel focused on new tooling with refined detail and graphics riding on pre-developed TMCC which experienced very few enhancements. And I'm not talking the Lionel products made from black market design data. Because I'm more concerned about appearance than operating features such as mega speed steps, four chuffs per rev, etc. I was attracted to Atlas and Lionel because some of Lionel and Atlas's $50 freight cars look and feel like $300 custom painted brass models. Same goes for diesels. MTH sort of fell by the waysidide for me and the raving of DCS fell on deaf ears. TMCC gives me all the features I'll ever care for. MTH has finally taken steps to refine their tooling so I'll be taking a closer look at MTH products. It appears Lionel is taking steps to refine TMCC. Kind of cylical really but this is how quality improves and technology advances.

[siberianmo]

[2c] regarding the question, What sells Lionel trains?, has to be name association for me. Lionel represents some of the best of times in my childhood back in the 40's and early 50's (high school). Those wonderful trains were my best friends and the hours we spent together will always occupy a special place in my aging mind's eye.

When I entered the miitary for what turned out to be a 32-year stint of active duty - the Lionel trains disappeared, as in gone.

Two things occurred in recent months: (1) The Polar Express movie and (2) Lionel's O-gauge Polar Express trainset. Upon viewing the movie and then finding out that Lionel put together a great rendition of that animated train - I just HAD to have it. I do - it's great - and the name recognition sold it. Plain and simple.

The Polar Express shelf system may be viewed on my photo album at:
http://www.railimages.com/gallery/thomasweber
Go to page 2 ......

Lionel has changed - surely has, and guess what [?] So, have I, no kidding. [;)]

[IronHoarse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cnw1995

What sells Lionel trains? N.O.S.T.A.G.L.I.A.

I agree...but I think that quality helps too.

[Anonymous]

When I was a boy, Lionel trains appeal to me because Lionel was everywhere, and I DO mean everywhere. No boy gorwing up in the late 40s and early 50s could escape Lionel trains. They were in department stores, hobby shops, hardware stores, and automotive supply stores. They were in magazines, newspaper comic sections, on the radio, and in the early years of television, even on that medium. I even recall Lionel ads at the Saturday matinees at the local movie theater. And, of course, there were the splendid Lionel catalogs of the time--"wish books" as we called them then--that have never been surpassed.

I had a Lionel layout--thanks to my dad--that was the envy of every kid in the neighborhood, and I labored long and hard on that layout, and even longer and harder earning money to buy things to put on that layout.

When I came back to O gauge trains some 20 years later, it was definitely nostalgia that brought me back. I asked my mom to ship me the remaining trains from my childhood, and as soon as those boxes arrive, the spark was rekindled. It burst into flames when a girlfriend at the time bought me Ron Hollander's book as a Christmas gift, and the very next day--after staying up all night reading that book--I went to the local hobby shop and bought a Lionel/MPC locomotive, several cars and accessories, and a bunch of track. I was hooked!

Today, in all honesty, nostalgia doesn't play a terribly big role in my fondness for O gauge, aside from during the Christmas season when I simply cannot separate Lionel from fond holiday memories long gone. But because there are so many other brands to choose from these days, most of the time my buying today has nothing at all to do with nostalgia, and everything to do with what is offered and the pricing. Frankly, I see Lionel today as just one of several very fine brands, and the product that gets my money is the one that offers what I want, irrespective of brand. I have trains from Lionel, of course, but I also have trains from MTH, K-Line, Williams, Weaver, RMT, and a few others that I'm probably overlooking. I admit that I do not currently own any Atlas locomotives, but that's just because they haven't offered anything I want in a roadname I prefer that doesn't have to be preordered before it sells out. I don't believe in preordering toy trains; hence Atlas hasn't gotten any of my train money. I figure that's their loss because there are plenty of other things out there for me to choose from.

Lionel's big mistake, in my opinion, is that they have devoted far too many of their resources in recent years to catering to the increasingly more finnicky high-end buyer, at the expense of developing new and different entry-level items. There are exceptions, of course--the 0-6-0 Dockside being one of them, and perhaps the Polar Express--but they have been few and far between. The firm no longer "sells" the foundation of nostalgia--certainly no more than any of its other major competitors--and that is, in my opinion, a good part of the reason the firm is struggling at the present time, and why it is in such a tight competitive position rather than standing head-and-shoulders above the rest as an industry leader.