027 Sized Car Sources

[csxt30]

Yes, thanks from me too ! That's great info for me down the road. I am going to try to save it, if I can. Thanks, John

[Anonymous]

Thank's Brian, that was an education. Regards Steve

[brianel027]

Thanks Jim! I absolutely guarantee my tips here will work! Folks talk about adding weight to cars and such. And the golden rule of layout design is not to have "S" curves, especially with 027 and even more so with switches... well, I've broken every rule. And my level of derailments has gone down to almost zero, except for my own stupidiy and carelessness. And when I do have one, I find the culprit is one of the 3 things I mentioned above.

To tighen up the truck mounting on Railking and Industrial Rail cars, you want to remove the truck and then using a Dremel tool with a grinding bit, take down the height of the nub (that goes into the body mounting hole) just a little bit. There is a little bit of wobble on these trucks as they come, and probably not as much of a concern with larger radius curves.

I was frustrated with my IR cars too Jim. Even though I think they are without question the nicest 027 cars ever made by anyone (with the exception of the caboose they made). Then I noticed how the couplers would bind on the curves despite my correction the truck wobble. Ah ha! Results!!!

I know diddly about TMCC or DCS, but ask me about 027 - that's my area of expertise!!!

[Jumijo]

I took Brian's advice regarding Industrial Rail's couplers and it made a world of difference! My IR hoppers were literally 1 more derailment from the trash can. After opening up the couplers, they no longer derail (unless I've just jinxed myself by saying so).

Jim

[jimhaleyscomet]

Thank you for the suggestions! I think I will look for some Train 19 cars as that seems to be what I really like..

Brian, Thank you for the extensive email. I will try some of your tips as well.

Allen, Will you please send me an email. Your post email seems to be off.

Jim H

[brianel027]

Jim, nearly everyone has something that will run and negotiate 027 curves and also clear the switch boxes on the Lionel 027 switches.

There are 3 main causes for the "jumping off the track" that you descibe and none has to do with the weight or heft of the car.

1) The manner by which the truck is attached to the frame or body of the car. If the truck is loose - that is wobbles back and forth when you hold the truck by the coupler - then you will have derailments unless you reattach the truck. The metal rivets used for so many years do not hold the trucks to the bodies as tightly as they should be, so you need to drill them out and reattach the truck using a blackened hex or truss screw with a stop nut for flat cars, and a silver truss screw / stop nut for inside cars like cabooses, box cars.

2) Coupler opening. This is a problem with the otherwise high quality Industrial Rail cars, especially on 027 curves that are a "S" shape... that is a left curve leading directly into a right curve track. You need to take a Dremel tool with a grinding bit and file down the inside space of the open coupler on the inside left hand-side of the coupler. The same problem and fix can apply to other couplers, espeically the Lionel non-operating dummy ones.

3) Wheel sets. Many short 027 cars made during the MPC era came with plastic wheel sets (and also had trucks attached with a plastic snap rivet... see #1). Many tiimes when the plastic wheel sets are replaced, the metal ones come from parts dealers who often get Korean knock-offs. Order a bulk of fast-angle wheel sets and you'll see what a mean.... the gauge of them can vary quite a bit within one bulk bag. Make sure the wheel sets on one single given truck are identical. They can vary a little from truck to truck on the same car, BUT NOT on the same truck... or you have derailments.

I speak with authority here. I have run 15 car trains with a nine inch plastic MPC car in the lead, going backwards through a "S" reverse loop pushing cars with die cast trucks with ZERO derailments. Adding weight to the car is the very last option and isn't necessary on rolling stock if you follow my above advice.

The exceptions for adding weight are
1) in locomotives
2) on rolling stock with roller pickups where the cars "bounce" due to the pickup... and you might beable to decrease spring tension before you add weight.
3) Tenders with Mechanical Sound of Steam... which I really like. These will work much better even on 027 track if you take a Dremel and lower the mounting holes that the rotating drum sits in. The drum as is, needs more contact with the track. Lower the mounting holes and add some weight to the plastic tender frame.

Another tip for preventing derailments, especially between steam engine and tender on types like the standard train set "Columbia" 4-4-2 steamer, is to put a small magnet or two on the underside of the metal "coupler" that connects the steam engine to the tender. This really works too!!

Though I will note this all are on the assumption that your track is all as laid out as best as it can be. Obviously if many cars derail on one particular spot, the problem is more than likely the track... otherwise if it is an isolated case with just one car, if's probably that car, and it's pobably due to one of the three things I mentioned above.

Now granted, the types of 027 cars leaves a little to be desired when it comes to modern types of cars and modern road names. Many of the smaller Lionel and K-Line cars are prime candidates for the repaint shop. Also, the K-Line "S" gauge cars are from the same MARX tooling used to make the older 027 cars. Though a little more pricey, they have the best graphics and paint K-Line has ever done on those smaller cars. I've removed the S-guage trucks (using them fortrain yard scenery) and replace them with normal 027 trucks.

The Lionel Waffle Box Car (introduced in 1995) is the last and virtually only new tooling done in 027 in the past decade. I like the Waffle Box a lot... has a look and feel of a modern box car. The Weaver "Crown" Box cars are from the Crown Company and are models of older cars that were smaller in reality. Take the Weaver Crown Box Car, remove the roof walk, cut down the ladder lengths, fill in holes and repaint to a current road, and you have another modern appearing box car.

The K-Line #765 series near scale Classic box cars introduced in late 1998/1999 look good on a smaller layout. These cars, though a little bigger, have shortened ladders and no roof walks and can easily pass for a modern hi-cube box car with smaller 027 types of cars.

By the way, I agree with you Jim that the trucks used on the K-Line Train-19 cars are the nicest K-Line has ever done and rank as possible the best around in that price range.

MTH has let the roadname selection on Rugged Rails falter for the past 6-7 yrs. This year there are finally some new roads being offered. Some of the Railking cars will run on 027 track and swithches (even though the catalog says otherwise) like the Railking Operating Coal Dump and Log Dump cars - though they are BIG and they are heavy too. The PS-2 Railking hopper will also clear 027 switchboxes. I personally have gone though some trouble to make what few Railking cars I have appear smaller. I've cut down the mounting nubs on the box cars, so they sit lower on the frame. I've done that to the PS-2 hopper also in addition to completley removing the nubs that raise the roofwalk - to give the impression the car is smaller.

There are other possibilities too if you want to be creative. I've made my own 027-ized TTUX cars as well as my own Coil Cars.

There are some nice older MARX cars too that if you replace the trucks with normal 027 3-rail trucks add some variety to a train. Many can be found as beaters, so when you repaint and replace trucks, you aren't hurting anyone's feelings.... not that it matters because once you buy 'em - they're YOUR trains!


A couple more thoughts.... the K-Line plastic turck couplers (some of which don't work too well)... replace the K-Line knuckle with a Lionel plastic one. The knuckle itself fits though you will need the Lionel knuckle pin as the pin diameter is different between the K-Line and Lionel ones. The Lionel knuckles will solve the problems.

With Lionel MPC era designed switches: sometimes the swivel rail doesn't make a good contact with the outer straight rail when the switch is set for the curve. Use a needlenose pair of pliers and bend the outer left side of the swivel rail out just a little at the end of the swivel rail, so that it makes a tight contact with the outer main straight rail. This will help cut derailments on the lead car or engine going into a curve from a switch. NOTE: the new K-Line 027 switches have been redesigned and although the footprint is still excessive, the new switches are an improvement to be sure.

Again, on 027 track, the Lionel Uncoupling track is preferable to the K-Line one. Not only does the Lionel work better, but the nub in the center of the uncoupling magent is lower on the Lionel one. You will notice more of a jerking/clunking sound with steam engines going over the K-Line one versus the Lionel one.

Just a few more first hand observations that I hope will help.

[mpzpw3]

Look for MTH "rugged rails", Lionel "traditional", K-line "train19", or Industrial rail cars. These are all nice cars.

[Anonymous]

Well, you can always get in touch with me, Jim! I have a bunch of O27-size cars (Lionel and K-Line, for the most part, and all new or like new), that I'm trying to dispose of and I will entertain any reasonable offer. [:)]

[jimhaleyscomet]

I am always on the look out for 027 sized cars that run smooth without being so light they fall over on curves when pulling a heavy load through 027 switches. The current K-line sets have very short, well operating cars that drag a heavy load without jumping off the track.

Does anyone have other suggestions? Especially for cars NOT offered as sets.

Jim H