List of lionel engines that need smoke fan reversal. Please contribute.

[PaulEFudd]

I have the Sharks and wondered why they didn't smoke, how do you go about fixing this? I also have the K-Line Shay still in box.

Paul

[Anonymous]

You can add lionel NPR alco C420 6-18587and lionel BNSF Dash 9 pumpkin 6-18253 to the list of engines that need fan reversal. One thing that I have noticed is that sometimes it does not help to reverse the direction of the fan. Lionel may be right when they say the fan can run backwards and produce smoke. On some engines it helps to reverse the fan but on others it does not.

[Dave45681]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4kitties

Would this be all of the K-Line Trainmasters or just the ones with TMCC? Mine is conventional with horn only and it smokes very well since I wired the drive motors in series for a lower top speed.

Joel

If my assumptions on manufacturing above are correct, I would imagine it's just as likely for a non-command engine to have the wires reversed either at the plug or the motor.

Probably the best thing is to check.

[eZAK]

And yet another; Lionmaster UP Challenger

[4kitties]

Would this be all of the K-Line Trainmasters or just the ones with TMCC? Mine is conventional with horn only and it smokes very well since I wired the drive motors in series for a lower top speed.

Joel

[ben10ben]

Did need to reverse:
Lionel Conrail SD-80MAC(full scale)
K-line Lackawanna TMCC Trainmaster

Those two are the only two fan driven units I own. Both also had green top boards.

[Dave45681]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ChiefEagles

Interesting, my SD 60 did not have fan reversed. So, does that mean that you can not go by model number but check each individual one?

I suspect that is exactly the case. I suspect the reason for the random nature of this is that there are a few steps to assembly here. 1) The wires get soldered to the motor 2) the wires get inserted in the connector (not necessarily in that order). Of course, we know the complete motor sub-assembly can only be connected one way, since these are keyed connectors.

It's likely not the same person doing both. Perhaps it's the person doing the soldering who has instructions that say it doesn't matter what wire goes to which terminal for this application? Maybe it's the person inserting the wires in the plug?

The extent of QC is probably just to turn it on and make sure it smokes. In fairness, I don't think anyone has had a unit not smoke at all due to backwards wires, so all of these units probably could pass QC. Smoke output is something hard to quantify without demonstration of desired result.

If we wanted to more thoroughly characterize the situation, I think we need to look at the actual motor connection and also note which wire on the connector is on the outboard side. That would help us determine where the problem originates. (this of course assumes Lionel boards are all manufactured with positive and negative on the same pin - since Lionel has in the past claimed it didn't matter what direction the fan turned, do we even know that for sure?)

My money is on the soldering of the wires to the motor, as I don't think the motors have any clear identifying characteristics as to polarity (since the variable of desired rotation makes polarity not able to be defined). I suspect the harness is purchased by the 100,000 lot or more with the wires already inserted in the connector. The motors at first glance seem to be symmetric. I could be mistaken, as it's been several weeks since I looked at one, but I don't think there would be anything preventing the motor from being mounted to the smoke unit rotated 180 degrees.

Unfortunately, I have not noted the wire positioning so far, I will do so for any other units I check out , whether I have to switch them or not.

My list so far (not yet mentioned):

Lionel CN Dash 9 (Tank Train Set)
Lionel Rocket Launcher Accessory
Lionel Centennial 2000 SD-90
Lionel TCA 50th Anniversary PRR FM (had the new black board other's have referred to)

[eZAK]

You can now add the K-line OP. Colonial House![:(]

[Anonymous]

Two more to add. lionel 6-18285 UP 9659 Dash 9 and lionel 6-28208 BN U33C. Both of these engines had reversed fans.

[dougdagrump]

You can add the earlier versions of the C-420, I have both versions of the D&H. The command and conventional which has been upgraded to TMCC and both had fans running "bass ackwards". [B)]

[Anonymous]

I know that older engines are more likely to have this problem. I think engines manufactured before 2003 are most likely. The engines i have from 2000 to 2003 are all suspect. My recent purchases which include engines made in late 2003 and 2004 don't have reversed fans. The obvious difference that I see is the color and marking of the printed board above the fan. The green colored boards are reversed while the black boards are not. There is also a Rev A marking on the black boards. One thing the wires are not reversed on the black board engines(the black wire is on the outboard side of the printed circuit board) but the fan turns the correct way. I belive the black board is wired correctly. I have not checked any of my Atlas O gauge engines. Are atlas engines allright or do they need to be checked?

[eZAK]

"..........does this include the BN SD 60 2000 release?"

macaste,
I have that exact same engine! Yes, the fan was reversed.

Just some thoughts

Could this be a problem that is associated with a batch of smoke units that were manufactured during a certain time period or at a specific factory?

Is there some number or date code on the board or motor?

Why is Lionel ignoring this problem?
They have been quoted as saying "...the smoke unit fan was designed to operate in either direction" I doubt that!

This would make a good case for a recall!

[Anonymous]

I am adding two more to the list. Lionel 6-18269 Up SD 90 MAC 2000 release and 6-18278 UP U30C 2001 release. Both these engines had their fans reversed. I am going to check all of mine. Marty your list includes Lionel Sd 60 does this include the BN SD 60 2000 release?

[ChiefEagles]

Interesting, my SD 60 did not have fan reversed. So, does that mean that you can not go by model number but check each individual one?

[MartyE]

I started the same thing on the OGR forum. So here is my additions based on the feedback there as well...

Desert Victory SD40
CSX SD80 scale
Lionmaster T-1
Scale J 606
F3s...scale?
RS-11
CC1 Turbine
CC2 Sharks
Lionmaster D&H Challenger
Class A
EM 1
K-Line Trainmaster
K-Line Diner
GN FA2
cc2 niagara
K-line Shay
Lionel SD-60

[ChiefEagles]

REVERSED FANS
NS Dash 9 from late 90's
new smoke unit I purchased from train shop to install in dummy

DID NOT HAVE REVERSED FAN
2 NS SD80 MAC 2000+ models
NS SD60 early 2000 model

[eZAK]

You can add a K-line Shay and the K-line diner to the list!

[zwbob]

I have 3 engines with the fans running backwards.

Lionmaster UP Challenger from 2001

Lionmaster NW class A from 2002

NS Dash 9 from the late '90's



Bob

[Anonymous]

I am starting a list of lionel engines that need their smoke fans reversed. If you have information please post it here. I have just started and I only have two so far. The lionel 6-18265 SP SD 70 released in 2002 needs fan reversal. Lionel 6-28229 SP dash-9 released in 2004 does not need it s fan reversed. I noticed the dash-9 had a black smoke cover with rev a on it. The SD 70's smoke cover was green. I hope this info helps. Please post the engines that need the fan reversed because it would save me a lot of time. Thanks.