Build a layout using blue foam for base

[GBThomas]

I am getting ready to build a layout in our game room. Many years ago my dad and I build a layout in our attic. It was made using 2 x 4's and plywood. I have been reading about various improved construction techniques and think I want to use 2" extruded foam (DOW Styrofoam). This razes several questions that I hope can be answered on this forum.
1- My layout will be 12' x 9' stand alone table. Is the foam strong enough to support this type of construction?
2- Has any one built a table using blue foam? All I see are shelf layouts about 18" to 24".
3- Are there any hazards? Fire, fumes, etc.
4- Any tips? Comments? Suggestions?

[Sturgeon-Phish]

I am no layout expert as building only three, but I do a lot of construction. With your 2x4 frame, the foam does not provide as ridgid surface to keep the table square, but this can easily be compensated for by using a plywood gusset at the corners, or metal diagonal strapping. You can inlay the gussets into the foam or the 2x's. Be careful to ensure the adhesives you use are compatable with the foam as some will "eat" the foam.
Jim

[Dr. John]

Blue foam can make an excellent layout base. Just make sure you provide adequate support in your framework. 16" cross members should work. Don't forget adequate leg support and bracing to prevent sway and wobble. With a 12x9 table, you'll need to consider some sort of access in the middle - the foam will NOT support your weight!

Hazards - don't breathe the fumes if you use a hot wire tool to cut the foam.

Use water based paint only! Any laquer based paint will eat through the foam. Yellow carpenters glue works well as an adhesive.

Good luck and welcome to the forum!

[csxt30]

[#welcome]GBThomas!! I have a picture here of how 1 person makes his layout benchwork. He may be along later with a better presentation. I think it coincides with the above posts.Thanks, John

[Anonymous]

That photo provides a good example of how it should be done. As others have noted, the foam board alone is not sufficient to provide support over a wide area (at least in the larger scales), but if it's braced by cross-members every couple of feet or so, It will work just fine. I really like working with that stuff!

[ChiefEagles]

Sorry guys but it is sufficient. The picture above is early stages of Buckeye's layout. I have seen it in person and it is quite grand. He has now added more around the room and still uses the foam as base. He did use the "T" girder system [I guess that is what you call it] and Allan is correct. Does not require heavy bracing as you might think. Buckeye is a structural engineer. A very good one at that.

[Anonymous]

I am using pink building insulation (was told is same as blue only different manufacturer) ,over 1/2" plywood over 2x4 framework, mainly for sound deadening. My layout is 10' x 18'6" with an offset for the door into the other part of the basement. There are three wall around it as well as a cement floor so I believe this should help. I was also told that Liquid Nails or white glue should work just fine. I am waiting for my order of a Crafters Hot Knife so I can get started building my tunnel out of the foam as well. I reinforce using Latex paint. Started with a latex primer and then a over coat of interior latex paint and it turned out fine. Hope this helps.

[dougdagrump]

The only problem with the white or yellow carpenters glue it takes FOREVER to dry completely, I opted for the liquid nails type of glue. More expensive but drys much quicker and a much stronger bond.

[brianel027]

Doug is right. There is a special type of Liquid Nails made for foam insulation board. Though the blue is more commonly sold, the pink board is much better than the blue for this type of application as the pink board has a much higher denisty than the blue board. I've used both, and much prefer the pink for this.

The blue board is fine for upper layers like scenery and mountains.

With people on the move so much more these days, I think the syrofoam board is the next wave in building train layouts. Very lightweight yet strong enough for a layout with the proper frame work... though you won't be able to walk on top of a styrofoam layout the way you can with plywood.

[Buckeye Riveter]

The seventh time, [:)]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter

The sixth time,[:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter

For about the fifth time we dig into the CTT forum archives BTW, if you want the scanned plans just email me and I will send you the .bmp files showing the dimensions of the bench work.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter

[#welcome] to the CTT forum.
Here is an old posting that we just keep recirculating

QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter

Last year, Chief Eagles stopped by when he was in Wheeling, WV at the grand opening of the Cabela's store. He wanted to see what I was doing and how it performed. One of the advantages and disadvantages that I have is the slope of the ceiling reflects the sound out to the operator and viewers.

QUOTE: Originally posted by ChiefEagles

Talk to Buckeye. He has his layout on foam only [yes foam only]. He uses deck screws pushed into the foam and they will hold the track in place. He says they will hold it fine and the track will settle into the foam some after running trains on it. I've seen his layout and it works fine.

Here are some of his photos: [he will not mind and can share more of construction]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter

Thank you Chief for those kind words. [:)][:)] I know it is hard for you to say such benevolent statements about a YANKEE from Buckeye Land. [:D]

And now on to the foam. Yes, my whole layout sits on foam. It is high-density 2" foam purchased at Home Depot, one of my favorite stores. The foam sits on joists at approximately 16" spacing. On top of the high density foam sits the 1" white foam.
Again, the Chief is correct, I do use deck screw or drywall screws to hold the track to the foam. If you really have a problem holding to the foam, I use a plastic "Molly" type connection and low heat glue and imbed it. I wished I had taken a photo of this.

The main reasons I used foam were; 1. The layout is designed to move and 2. after shelling out my hard earned money for Railsounds, I wanted to hear it. [:)] The foam accomplished both goals.


My layout extension under construction will not use the 1" white foam overlay, since the two inch meets all the goals stated above.


Approx. same view of layout as above

Q: How do you walk on the layout?
A: I don't. I designed it so I could reach everything. My new addition will have hidden hatches inside the exposed loops. The cat has been know to walk on the layout and hide in the tunnel.

Q: Does it make wiring easier?
A: Much easier. I use an extra long drill bit (10”) and punch through the foam. No drilling required, as you need to do with wood.

Q: Over time does it deflect or sag?
A: We have not seen any sag in the foam. On my previous HO layout the plywood sagged all the time with the changes of moisture in the air.

Q: Where are the transformer and controls located?
A: Under the layout on a small shelf

Q: How much will it hold?
A: I might try to calculate that someday. [:)]

One other thing, if you look near the end of the book, How to Build Model Railroad Benchwork , by Linn Westcott, published by Kalambach, he just starts to touch on the subject on the use of foam. This book is usually found in most decent hobby stores.

The MTH RealTrax is attached very securely to the foam with deck screws. If you want to make the attachment even more secure, paint the area beneath the track with a white glue-water mixture. This mixture just makes the foam a little stronger.

And here is some more photos of the construction and the overall plan.

[tjsprague]

I have a small, L-shaped layout I covered with blue foam. It's made with 1" x 4" lumber, spaced at 16" apart.





For spaces which result from my less than square benchwork, I filled with scraps, then glued. For the seams I found that flexible caulking works best.



I've painted it all a tan color I found at the Home Depot "mistake" pile, $2.99.



I like it because it's nice and light. Me and my two boys, 10 and 11, can easily move it to get to the wiring, and soon to be painted backdrop. I know traditional wisdom says do all thgis stuff first, but sometimes you just got to run trains to keep the enthusiasm.

Good luck,

Tim

[Anonymous]

OK foam guys ....here is a question I've always wanted to ask. How the heck to do you run wires up through the foam ?

I know how much fun it is to drill and pass wires through .500" plywood. I can't imagine what it must be like to try and get a wire up through 2" of soft stuff.

What the trick ?

Jeff

[FJ and G]

Yes, there are certain hazards to styrofoam, not the least which are flying beagles that may land on your layout foam when you least expect it.

BTW, I used chunks of industrial Styrofoam 8 feet long and 4 feet thick per piece. Don't ask where you can get it b/c got mine from an industrial dumpster. Put it in back of my pickup truck. On the way home on the beltway, a chunk flew off and hit a police car that was tailgating me. Officer chewed me out but didn't get a ticket.

[Buckeye Riveter]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bjaspud

OK foam guys ....here is a question I've always wanted to ask. How the heck to do you run wires up through the foam ?
I know how much fun it is to drill and pass wires through .500" plywood. I can't imagine what it must be like to try and get a wire up through 2" of soft stuff.
What the trick ?
Jeff

This is the neatest part about the foam. I had in my tool box a 1/4" drill bit that is about 10" long that I used to build a swingset many years ago. When I want to punch a hole in the foam, the bit without drill attached is used to punch the hole. The wires are sent up or down the hole. I also have a coat hanger bent to sometimes help me through places that are tight. It is very easy. [:D] The scenery covers up the hole if needed.

[GBThomas]

Thanks for all the responses. This gives me a lot to think about and to consider as I do the planning for the RR.
George

[Jumijo]

I'll second that, George. I've learned a lot from this thread.

FJ & G, How did you get the styrofoam to look so much like rock? Did you just break it up or carve it somehow?

Jim

[FJ and G]

Buckeye,

that's also how I get the wires thru the foam and in my case the particle board supporting the foam, atop the Closet Maid shelving brackets. (you can see the particle board next to bb the beagle)

Jim,

I "stress" the foam by running a drywall saw sideways on it to form rock strata and declivities.

I usually will stress the foam out on the patio; it creates a spectacular mess. You should have seen BB the beagle covered in it one day; and the static cling makes it adhere for a long time. She looked like a ghost.

I stuck the foam to the particle board using wood glue and placing weight plates down on the foam. It takes a week or so to dry (if ever), but once dry the bond is solid. Im sure there are quicker ways to do it and I've used different types of chalkings to put it on fast.

[FJ and G]

One other thing; even after you stress the beady foam with the drywall saw, the beads are still there. There are several ways to cover the beads. A very thin layer of Joint Compound, tile grout, thinset, plaster (or actually anything you have on hand) will do the trick. Just massage it on with your hands. Just takes a few minutes.

The other trick is to not even mess with those items I just mentioned and slap some brownish latex on the foam and while it is still wet, dribble dried clay on. The clay I'm talking about is clay from the fields or backyards. It is much more sterile than soil and the particles are small enough to be scale size.