For the Marx collectors

[espeefoamer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by brianel027

Thanks Sask!

How many stories have we read over the years in the train magazines where the author stated "my first train set was a MARX" instead of Lionel or American Flyer. MARX always was the distant poor-man's cousin to Lionel, but the success of the original MARX company speaks well of how important that role was.

I've always somewhat resented all the criticism of early K-Line product as being MARX clones. It was often said or written as an insult instead of the compliment it should have been. There is still a place for that kind of product. And aside from the additional cost of producing the S-2 for K-Line (in the multiple folds on the sheet metal frame) I've always regretted the discontinued status of that loco.

I know that K-Line potentially has other MARX dies that have yet to be produced. It's too bad that in this "all-true-scale-proportions-or-nothing" trend of the hobby, the K-Line revised MARX products got dumped on so much. Of course, they were scale... they weren't meant to be. Note that the new "Kid's O" trains are advertised as being almost full scale.

In my mind, the biggest mistake K-Line made in the early years with the production of so much of that product was that they did not update the roadname selection to reflect what is currently running on the real rails instead of falling back so much on nostalgia. I've seen it first hand so many times and it's not even a close call: today's kid's are drawn so much more strongly to today's current railroad lines versus ones they have never heard of.

Has anyone else noticed that the Marx,and now K-Line,S2 is actually very close to a Lima diesel switcher? With it's flat nose it looks just like a Lima 1000 HP switcher.
I think some of the Marx litho locos and cars have quite authentic markings.I had some of both Marx and Lionel trains when I was growing up.

[Jumijo]

I was in an antique shop this past weekend and came across a Marx "set" in a card board box. A Santa Fe Deisel A and B unit, a hopper, gondola, and a caboose, along with a transformer and some Lionel track. There was also a metal Lionel bridge approx. 2 feet long and a funky 2 part metal mountain with train illustrations painted on it. The guy wanted $100 for the whole she-bang. The locos were play worn but the cars looked to be excellent or better. Not a mark on them. He also had a plastic steamer with its tender. All of it looked really cheap to me. I bought a bottle of original Lionel smoke pellets for $3 instead. Now all I need is a post-war loco to put them in!

Jim

[mersenne6]

I've always thought Marx tinplate was exceptional and I've also thought it was unappreciated by the tin litho crowd (of which I'm a part). My personal belief is that the reason for this is most people have never seen Marx tinplate in anything except "well played with" condition. As has been noted, the trains ran and ran and they had great play value and the kids (surprise, surprise) had the nerve to actually play with them! As a result, well used Marx is quite common and looks like what it is - something that someone had a lot of fun with. Unfortunately, when you take this image and put it next to a mental image of a well preserved piece of Bing, Flyer, or Ives litho Marx comes out the loser.

I have displayed well preserved tinplate Marx along side pieces from the other manufactureres in similar condition and the Marx never ceases to impress the viewers. Time and again I will hear people remark ,"Wow, look at that! I didn't know Marx looked that way!" To me Marx is a great example of well thought out engineering and design. The company put their efforts into making an item that was durable, long lived, and extremely eye catching.

[Dave Farquhar]

I don't know about whether Marx sold more trains than Lionel--I know at its peak, Lionel sold almost 700,000 locomotives and 2.4 million cars in one year. And I know Marx sold an average of 300,000 sets per year. Assuming a "set" is a locomotive and 3 cars, that's still half what Lionel sold. So the unknown is separate-sale items, but I know Marx's bread and butter was the sets, which they could sell for much less than anyone else did.

But at any rate, Marx has always been extremely underrated. I read the story Sask is talking about in the Greenberg Marx book last night. The Vandy in question ran for a distance equivalent to the distance between New York and Chicago before it died. They ran it eight hours a day, continuously, for five days a week. When it finally broke, they took the motor apart and studied it closely and discovered the bearings had worn out. So they put better quality bearings in it so the train would run longer.

So, *before* the improvement, a Vandy was capable of doing 132,000 laps around a 4x8 table. Not too shabby.

[brianel027]

Thanks Sask!

How many stories have we read over the years in the train magazines where the author stated "my first train set was a MARX" instead of Lionel or American Flyer. MARX always was the distant poor-man's cousin to Lionel, but the success of the original MARX company speaks well of how important that role was.

I've always somewhat resented all the criticism of early K-Line product as being MARX clones. It was often said or written as an insult instead of the compliment it should have been. There is still a place for that kind of product. And aside from the additional cost of producing the S-2 for K-Line (in the multiple folds on the sheet metal frame) I've always regretted the discontinued status of that loco.

I know that K-Line potentially has other MARX dies that have yet to be produced. It's too bad that in this "all-true-scale-proportions-or-nothing" trend of the hobby, the K-Line revised MARX products got dumped on so much. Of course, they were scale... they weren't meant to be. Note that the new "Kid's O" trains are advertised as being almost full scale.

In my mind, the biggest mistake K-Line made in the early years with the production of so much of that product was that they did not update the roadname selection to reflect what is currently running on the real rails instead of falling back so much on nostalgia. I've seen it first hand so many times and it's not even a close call: today's kid's are drawn so much more strongly to today's current railroad lines versus ones they have never heard of.

[Anonymous]

I agree with you Brian about Marx. I read somewhere once that Marx actually sold more trains than Lionel did during the postwar era. Marx trains may have been cheap, but they were built well and made to last! Back in the 1930's, when Marx first came out with their Commodore Vanderbilt, they took the motor from one and let it run continuously until it broke down about a month later. It was then examined to see why it stopped. The design was then altered slightly so that that wouldn't happen again. Marx continued to use that same basic motor design for almost all of their locomotives until they went out of business in the 70's.

[brianel027]

I still have a great deal of respect and admiration for the orignal MARX company. They made affordable trains in compeition with Lionel during a time when Lionel WAS really pretty much the only name. And MARX Trains were sold literally everywhere. Places that didn't carry Lionel, could easily have MARX Trains in stock.

Of course one can easily see the cost cutting techniques MARX used. But still many of those trains were clever with ingenious designs. Many of the operating cars were manually operated, but they were still lots of fun for young kids. And there's something to be said for the original MARX tools and dies, that K-Line could come along years later and still get more life out of them. Too bad so many people dumped on early K-Line product as being Marx clones... there was still a place in the market for those kinds of trains.

It's often overlooked that MARX was an early pioneer of sound in steam engines, with their own electronic sound of steam a couple years before Lionel/MPC came out with their own version.

And in this day and age where our trains are so readily judged based on how prototypical they are in scale dimensions and paint scheme, it's impressive how on the mark many of the older tin MARX lithographed trains were... even more accurate paint scheme representations that some of the Lionel counterparts.

[Anonymous]

I actually have two unused train sets that were old store stock. One area in train collecting that I specialize in is Japanese battery operated train sets from the 1960's. I own two HO sets made by TN (Toy Nomura) that are in their original boxes and are sealed in their original plastic covering. One of the sets is quite rare, as it is the only one that I have ever seen. Because they are wrapped in clear plastic, they can be displayed very nicely. I got them both on ebay. One was only $14.99 and the other was just $19.99! There's deals out there if you know where to look! I also have a 1970's battery operated train set from the Soviet Union that has all of its accessories in sealed plastic bags. I've bought other mint sets that probably were never used, but there's no real way to tell that for sure. I would never buy a train that is sealed in a cardboard box that you can't see inside of, though.

Of course, there are also cases where kids are just really careful with their toys. Not that long ago on the Canadian Antiques Roadshow, there was someone with some really rare early Dinky toys (as a matter of fact, they were railway figures for use with Hornby trains) and other toys from the 1930's that were mint in their original boxes. They belonged to the person's grandfather who played with them all the time when he was young, but just was very careful and kept them in perfect shape! I wi***here were more kids like him!

[Dave Farquhar]

Some of that kind of stuff seems to be old store stock, from cleanouts of long-closed stores. There was an old hardware store up the street from where I work whose contents were auctioned off a couple of months ago. I didn't get a chance to go to the auction but one of the items was a Lionel postwar set.

I've read too about toy collectors getting mint-in-package items and there's usually a story behind them, like it was purchased as a gift that for whatever reason was never given.

I tend to avoid mint and near-mint items myself for pretty much the same reasons. Of course my attitude might be a bit different if I could afford to pay mint-in-box prices, but since I can't, I've learned to like toys that got some playtime best.

Oh, and thanks for the reminder to watch that area. That's a good place to find other tinplate items for the layout, although we have to be careful of scale unless we like Goliath-sized figures and buildings to go with our trains.

[pbjwilson]

I just find it fascinating that playsets meant for young kids to play with 50 years ago can be found in near mint condition and complete with boxes.

Then I find it fascinating that grown men collect these sets and are willing to pay big dollars for them and not play with them at all.

I actually pass up on some train items because it's in too good of condition. How could I enjoy playing with it if I'm afraid I might scratch it or something. I also find that scratches and a bit of rust add to the character of a piece.

Anyway, I really enjoy the old Marx stuff and other tin toys.

[cnw1995]

My personal choice for Marx is at http://www.trainmarket.com/

[Anonymous]

Very nice! Very nice, indeed! Just a bit too steep for my pockets, though.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for sharing the information pbj. Those are cool sets. Lots of play value. [8D]
I love Marx. Just haven't collected any to date. I'm glad they were so prolific! I saw a seller on E-bay who has done some facinating restroations on old Marx Locos and cars. One was a streamline loco and passenger cars painted and detailed for the "Hiawatha" He had even fabricated a beaver tail observation!

[pbjwilson]

Here's a nice set for all the Marx fans -

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=727&item=5968494457&rd=1


This one's pretty cool too.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=727&item=5969094698&rd=1