Who has the best new ideas?

[FJ and G]

Here's another that undoubtedly would sell like hot cakes...

http://www.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38017

or...

http://www.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37876&whichpage=1

(who says people in toy trains are the only ones having fun!)

[FJ and G]

Here it is guys, the idea that would nearly or possibly outsell the beeps.

Drum roll........ the eggliner.........(believe it or not, I believe there's a prototype for it)

http://www.discounttrainsonline.com/Aristo-Craft-Lil-Eggliner-Christmas/item614-22725.html

[Jumijo]

Here's an idea I'd like to see - undecorated streamliner passenger cars. Combines, coaches, diners, vista domes, observations, baggage, and mail cars all either completely unpainted or silver but with no roadnames, numbers, heralds, or colors.

Jim

[brianel027]

Yep Dave, the BEEP was a no-brainer. I doubt Walter went to YORK with his idea notebook before he did that one. From existing tooling/dies too... what a concept! Something folks want in loads of roads with no expensive tooling to recoup. The Buddy is another great idea from existing dies that would have been left to die had not RMT picked it up.

But the other train companies have in part created this "Frankenstein" monster of a train customer. Every year it's out doing the past year, meanwhile the previous year's latest amazing marvels haven't begun to pay for themselves yet and yet the adult train buyer is already expecting the next expensive-to-make scale detailed marvel. And when you mention "non-scale," "traditional" or "027" the now angered villagers come a runnin' armed with torches and pitchforks ready to chase that horrible non-scale monster out of town.

Of course on the opposite side of the no-brainer we have some real lack of brainers:
- Loads of lawsuits with more probably on the way.
- K-Line's non-existant "Technology Agreement" with Lionel.
- A circle only of track with MTH sets.
- Improvement: a circle with 2 straights in MTH sets.
- More types of differing track systems than anyone wants to think about.
- Differing expensive control systems.
- Couplers that fail to work well out-of-the-box with other makes of trains.
- Wonderful new transformers with retro-design that unfortunately don't even work.
- More high-end expensive items than the current market can reasonably aborb.
without substantial price reductions, which the market now expects.
- Road names on starter sets and related items that were current and seen 50 years
ago.

I think you're right Dave on the short passenger cars and the majority of buyers would support this and other types of similar non-scale products. Unfortunately the companies are mostly listening to the minority of buyers.... like K-Line did.

[pbjwilson]

Dave - Were those called eggers, or little egger. Something like that. They were double sided observation cars, right?

[FJ and G]

Brian,

That Beep was the idea of the year! What a simple plan too. Of course LargeScale (G) has something similar called a Critter that's a big seller. The Beep is a no-brainer.

The other no-brainer would be to produce those very very short G-scale fantasy passenger cars in O gauge size. I forget the name of them, but I believe they are even self-propelled.

That would earn a company a pretty penny or 2.

[brianel027]

Funny, a year later and aside from K-Line being out of business, I think I'm still on the mark. OK, now Atlas has the IR tooling and we shall see how well they do with it. If they hold prices and continue the quality, they should do well with it.

A year later and at least from the affordable end, most of the best new things are old things. The BEEP is still coming out in new road names and still doing well. The RMT Buddy shows how wrong K-Line was in their past few years... the Buddy is an improvement over what K-Line did, which was an improvement over the MARX version. Walter really has the right idea as far as the "affordable end" goes.

The Lionel Docksider should also go on the list. We shall see if Lionel decides to follow it up with anything else.

Others argue about chuff rates. TMCC "version 22.5" and speed control... those ARE cool ideas but as of date, still priced out of the reach of many. If the hobby is going to reach new folks, there needs to be a balance between affordable and quality. And I for one wonder how much longer the remaining companies can continue to one-up eachother with new expensive tooled scale products that fail to sell in the quantities needed to even justify their production. Meanwhile the prices on the basic stuff keep going up to help pay for the tooling and development of the high end stuff.

Something is wrong with that picture. I've been saying this for years... too much expensive high end and not enough affordable low end spells trouble. I wonder if anyone at K-Line believes me NOW???!!!!

[palallin]

I'm not sure anybody has the "best new ideas." I really don't thaink that any of the companies are really sure what they're doing in the changing market place, but I am encouraged by Atlas buying IR (so long as they change their attitude toward parts).

[FJ and G]

Hey, who let the dogs out? [:D]

[Anonymous]

I would say Lionel, overall. FasTrack will take a lot of people from the "Christmas only" layout into "permanent" layouts, which will grow the hobby. Lionel's Docksider engine is highly detailed for under $100. They also keep comming out with neat animated accessories.
I'll also include the Beeps and Buddy powered units from other manufacturers, both under $70. Great looking items that anyone can afford. Joe

[Anonymous]

Yes, one year later, and look how out-of-date my comments about K-Line, posted above, are now woefully out of date!

I should note that I did manage to get one of their Porter steam locomotives before they went belly-up. A bit on the large size for what should be a pretty tiny locomotive, but very nice. Too bad folks are not likely to see any more of those little gems in the near future, aside from the relatively few that were actually produced and may still be around someplace.

[Anonymous]

One year later and all the talk and thinking about Industrial Rail guided the people running Atlas O to buy up that line of affordable and durable O Gauge trains.

If we can focus all of our thoughts again, we can make something else great happen.

Andrew F.

[Anonymous]

well the a person who has a ******* huge train sets the poeple that fill their whole entire attic with layouts spend alot of time with their trains buy alot of train things know everything about trains and maybye build trains peple like that

[Anonymous]

Ive got beeps as well, and two TMCC models... so, I can't complain.... have fun!

[Anonymous]

The K-Line Porter with scale couplers (including cars similarly equipped) are really neat. I have several of the scale-coupler equipped sets, as well as several other Plymouths with the conventional O gauge couplers. Since both the sets and the individual locomotives come equipped with both types of couplers, K-Line has met the needs of both interests.

I'm looking forward to getting one of their new Porter locomotives, as well--especially if they can correct that slanted-cylinder (which is correct) with horizontal piston rod thing that kind of bugs me in the photos I've seen. But I'll be ordering one in any event, and hoping for the best. I'm a big fan of small motive power!

And, of course, I really like the RMT BEEPs, and already have about eight of them to play with in various roadnames. VERY nice for the price!

Granted that K-Line has had to meet the competition in offering a good number of higher-end and more costly locomotives, but they've also done, and are doing, a very good job at the affordable end, and a good many folks seem very attracted to, and pleased with, their rolling stock assortment.

Overall, I've found that O gauge has more to offer these days, in all price ranges, than I could possibly afford. The wealth of product available has really forced me to make some hard choices in recent years, and to become far more selective in what I buy, with my main emphasis being on era and roadname.

[FJ and G]

count me in on the "affordable" end.

Industrial rail; low-end K-line and Railking and Williams. You won't find me spending $1K for a locomotive. Heck, I could buy a Russian wife for that. ... and may still do it.

[brianel027]

I'll stand corrected. I like Allan's term "affordable end" product.

I've tried getting more specific info, but from my understanding Indsutrial Rail product folded because of other reasons other than sales. Industrial Rail was made by United Model Distributors, which is a distributor. Meaning retailers could get the IR product at much more attractive wholesale margins than Lionel, K-Line or MTH product. Part of the early success of IR product was the changing of road name numbers on the cars with subsequent runs. My understanding is the last runs on IR product were fairly substantial and there appears to be no changes of road name numbers on final production runs. This may account for the reductions in prices on IR cars. Hobbyco picked up the line but I understand it was more in the interest of dumping the remaining inventory. There was some rumor that another firm was going to introduce the line again with more new products but I have heard nothing concrete on this.

I think RMT has a very good thing going with the Beep. There are still lots of road names they can cover. Remember some roads that have been released have been through distributors and clubs, so they could still catalog those and issue them again in some way or form. If the Beep retains it's affordable status with upgrade options available for those who desire them, I think the Beep will continue to be popular.

I don't argue that K-Line product has improved greatly in many areas, but mostly on the scale side. The company has also followed the general trend of chasing after the scale buying audience. What few traditional-sized offerings they've introduced have mostly been rehashes of previously cataloged cars. This includes quite a few of the Train-19 cars... a cost saving more for sure, as their is no additional costs with new paint masks. The new non-scale offerings from K-Line such as the Husky line are from inherited or existing dies/tooling and are not that innovative. Granted the low-end GP-9 is a good idea for beginning modelers, I'd rather see the S-2 and related types of sets back in the line over the Husky stuff, but that's my opinion. The Husky line is as much a sales gimmick as anything else. The new small switchers such as their Plymouth switcher is very nice. But it seems that even this is being aimed at the more scale crowd as it is now coming with scale couplers instead of standard couplers compatible with others rolling stock.

[Anonymous]

At the lower end of the market (I prefer the term "affordable end" since it includes me) I would have to give the nod to K-Line. They have come out with some innovative and affordable locomotives and rolling stock in recent years, and that has marked a great change from the years (not terribly long ago) when about all they offered were S-2 and MP-15 switchers, along with a reworked Marx steamer. And, they have greatly expanded their rolling stock and accessory lines with a wealth of innovative products. Credit where credit is due!

[cnw1995]

brianel, I'm a lower-end operator as well. I am wondering though what happened to Industrial Rail - they went out of business I guess? Maybe there weren't enough low-end sales in volume to make up in margin what someone might make focusing on the top end of things. I guess the same thing will happen to RMT - eventually, they'll reach a point where most eveyone who is interested in Beeps will have purchased one - but I see them branching out into other high quality low-end products like their caboose. It'll be interesting!

[brianel027]

Getting back to the premise of Santafekent's original question...[:)]

I think the answer to that depends on how you operate and the types of products you are looking to buy. Selection and innovation are much better on the high-end spectrum of products. Given SFkent's disclaimer of being a lower end non-scale model (Of which I am also), things become a lilttle more limiting.

I agree that Lionel is doing the best job as far as starter related products go. For the first time ever, they have starter priced products in some current modern road names. Amazing! Finally BNSF, CSX and NS on some affordable non-scale proportioned products!

Though there is lots of room for improvement. I agree the starter diesels are in dire need of improvements. As are product descriptions in the catalogs. One my my moans is that is seems everytime in the past decade that Lionel has made products I would really like, they make them in such a poor way that I cannot bring myself to buy them. There's quite a long list for me. of Lionel products.. things I really wanted in roads and product sizes I wanted. But I just couldn't bring myself to buy for no other reason than POOR quality.

A couple of years ago, I did have the money to buy more trains. I wanted to buy the new Conrail starter U36B. I mean I really wanted that engine. I mean I had to have it. I saw one run. I held it in my hands. Yes, it had one single motor and it pulled TERRIBLY even on a display layout. Finally a somewhat modern looking engine in a road I wanted in a size I wanted... I also knew I could shorten the height successfully on the shell to make it look even better on my layout. Unlike the older Railking locos that had the walkway decks cast in to the shell, the Lionel U36B doesn't so shortening the shell height is easily done.

The next stater U36B to come along was a Western Pacific, which is a road name I would never buy. But lo and behold, it had 2 motorized trucks instead of one as the Conrail version did. Yet the catalog for the WP model also listed it as having ONE motor. Now I wonder what the new CSX U36B will ACTUALLY have? Catalog says one motor.

I agree MTH has pretty much forgotten lower end buyers. Although finally there are a couple of new road names on the Rugged Rails cars. But had it not been for Industrial Rail, there probably wouldn't even be a Rugged Rails line. There probably wouldn't be a Train-19 line either.

I'm not overly impressed with K-Line's "smaller" products. They're trying to walk the fine line of offering scale, and yet having some smaller scale sized items. As far as road names on their previous "classic" line items, they're still duly stuck in the past. As well as those items being rather limited anyways. There were two 4 packs of traditionally sized box cars offered during their Feb. Show sale. Nothing new. All those roads had been previously issued by K-Line. Why don't they finally put some different road names on some cars.... maybe even a couple of current roads like NS, CSX, BNSF, CP, CN, CV, GT, CR? And why don't they take the past masks from the "S" gauge cars, and use those for the 027 cars? K-Line is cataloging the 6-pack again of starter 027 cars... the same car bodies used for the "S" gauge cars. But the 027 6-pack is the same exact one that has been cataloged before with roads that have been cataloged before... the B&O box car in that 6-pack was made by K-Line at the very beginning. I don't get it. Here they have those wonderful paint schemes on the "S" gauge cars... how hard would it be to use those paint masks and make some different low end starter cars?

But I've been saying some of these things for years, and I'm not wrong. Industrial Rail came along and stole everyone's thunder as far as these kinds of products were concerned. They were making products just I as I've been saying for years. I'm not the only modeler who feels this way. And that IR cars sold so well proves my point.

As does the success of the RMT "Beep." That's the kind of diesel switcher K-Line should have done. Or Lionel, though Lionel scores points with the new Docksider. Something the scale guys can live with and something the non-scale guys will have to have all in the same box! What a concept! And the Beep is available in every kind of road name imaginable, or it probably will be soon. It runs well, is priced to appeal to beginners and is in other roads than just Pennsy and NYC.

Sometimes I think when looking at what Lionel and K-Line offer, that the only two railroads that ever existed were the NYC and the Pennsy. Which should answer the question (when people ask and still ask me) why have I repainted so many of my own trains.

[Anonymous]

I would love to see a MTH animated O-Oguage model railroad club with moving trains & people.

[Anonymous]

I think we got off of the original topic, so I'll try to talk about both.

First, all of the train companies have some good new ideas. My current favorite is the new railsounds tendor from Lionel.

Now regarding topdown's comments....you can get a mini camera that runs off of a 9volt for about 30-50 bucks on ebay.

Or, you can get one in Hong Kong like I did....for 12 bucks and a 4 grand plane ticket.

these cameras can remotely transmit up to 300 feet and are 1x1x1 inches in size

[dougdagrump]

Topdesign, If you are ever in San Diego come by the Toy Train Gallery at the SDMRR Museum, One of the club members, some years back, mounted a pinhole camera and transmitter, track powered, in an old Budd car. Regardless of whether it is sitting on a siding or being pushed/pulled around the layout it is extremely popular with the visitors. The receiver is on one of the support colums with an LCD monitor for viewing. One of these days I'm going to put an empty flatcar behind the tender so the "choochoo cam" will have a real good shot of my mikado steamer around the layout.

[Anonymous]

I just strapped a Sony Handycam movie camera onto a flat-car and pushed it in front of an engine through my layout while recording. I only had to modify one bridge to get a good run.

When I reviewed the movie, it was great to see the layout from the perspective of the engineer. The flat car that I used to mount the camera did wobble a bit too much so I am working on that problem now. I know that you can purchase equipment to do this but in my case, I was able to avoid that expense. I think the equipment I looked at was around $300.00 for transmitter, receiver, monitor, etc...

[Anonymous]

I have been out of the picture for many years. I have maintained my layout which has been in a sealed room, so it is in good shape and I just spent 100 hrs going over a lot of stuff. It is essentially built around two Lionel2026 steam locos along with a new-ish Santa Fe AB Alco unit and dummy from a 1989 set with 5 cars, I also have a borrowed 1951 NYCentral ABA unit with my own set of o027 NYC passengers from 1988 I think. The layout is 2-tiered, whimsical but attempts semi-serious modeling with nice mountains. My latest interest has been to acquire (through specials at Fry's) several mini-TV cameras, some mini tripods from Big Lots, a switching panel and TV monitor along with a good VCR, and begin to make videos using remote camera locations around the layour, emphasizing on views I cannot normally have because of space restrictions. I wondered if anyone else is doing this with the mini cameras. They work great for this, most can be focused for intermediate distances. I have probably wrapped less than $120 total in this, shopping carefully, and the rig is pretty neat. I built a neat "scooting" shelf unit to hold the gear, and park it under the layout next to the power packs. I run about 50 pieces of rolling stock (not all at once) and the layout is about 16 feet long.

[Anonymous]

My own evaluation (bearing in mind that I can afford the low end, and I'm not a big "scale" hi-railer type):

1. Lionel; doing a decent job keeping the low end alive. The small Berkshire is great (at an incredible price), but they could stand to work on the diesels a bit.

2. MTH; they seemed to be abandoning this part of the market. Oh well....

3. K-Line; these guys have my attention now! First the Plymouth Diesel, now a Porter steamer, and small coal cars. Some neat operating accessories at a good price (I bought some!). Now they have O gauge track in street sections.... you can vehicles, trolleys, or switchers on it.

Then I notice that K-line has put the Porter and the Plymouth on S gauge..... Wait; S gauge track would be a great narrow gauge, and the track looks right with my 027!!! It's got to be more rugged than the delicate On30 stuff that I gave up on. Keep it up K-Line!