A.C. Gilbert AMERICAN FLYER questions .....

[siberianmo]

A friend of mine has a "lead" on two American Flyer (AC Gilbert) train sets (minus power packs): One is the passenger set featuring the great looking Alco diesels (Santa Fe) and right now, no specifics on the freight. All he knows is that both have been "boxed" for years and are in "excellent" shape. The guy with the trains is out of the country right now, but will be back in May ...... he wants to sell these trains.

I'm into HO and perhaps some of you have viewed my layout on http://www.railimages.com/gallery/thomasweber - anyway, I also just completed construction of a shelf RR for Lionel's new Polar Express train set in O gauge with FasTrack. Next, I would like to do a bit of S gauge and it seems to me that the sets this guy has may just fit the bill.

Here's where YOUR help would be appreciated. What are your thoughts about that passenger set? I recall seeing it many times when I was a kid (1940's-50's) and thought it looked fantastic. However, I was "into" Lionel 0-27 and would NEVER admit that American Flyer could even come close to my three-rail 'empire'!

What price guides are available for the era that this particular set was marketed? (I'm going to make the guess that the freight set also comes from that timeframe as well.......).

What do you recommend for power packs that will handle both sets?

Really appreciate any thoughts you may have, as long as you can "stay on track" (so to speak!)[;)]

Thanx![tup]

[ben10ben]

Most American Flyer diesel passenger sets are pretty valuable...often in the $500-1200 range depending on specifics such as the number of dummy engines, number of cars, overall condition, and the paint scheme. I often see individual generic aluminum cars(American Flyer Lines) sell for $75 for really bad ones(i.e. discolored low lustre) to $125(used but still shiney). I often see AA or AB sets of diesels sell for around $300 each, or $400 for an ABA in decent condition. Some of the rarer paint schemes sell for even more. Freight sets are much, much more variable and it's usually difficult to aproximate a value without know exactly what's in the set.

Kalmbach publishes a pocket price guide that can be had for around $10 and covers the postwar era, as well as most modern production. It doesn't have much info other than the prices and a brief(5 words or less) description of the item, along with major variations and their respective prices.

If you could get us some pictures and/or numbers, I would be glad to look up the values.

[siberianmo]

ben10ben:

Thanx for the info .......

As I mentioned in my post, the guy with the trains is out of the country .... If I should get to the picture stage, I'll be sure to look you up.

Appreciate your response![tup]

[ben10ben]

Sorry, I completely skipped over the part about transformers. A good choice to run those would be either an 18b or a 30b. A good 30b(300 watts) can be had for about $150-200, or about half that for an 18b(170 or 190 watts, depending on when made). Both have two independent throttles. The 30b also has built-in voltmeters.

Although either one would run his trains fine, the extra wattage of the 30b could come in handy considering that he'll be running a passenger train. The lightbulbs in passenger cars eat current quicker than anything, although the one lamp American Flyers aren't as bad as some of the 2-4 lamp Lionels.

The 30b will allow him plenty of wattage to run both trains well, along with a handful of accesories.

For a cheaper alternative, he could also get two 100 watt 8bs, which sell for around $20 each. They should have plenty of power, although they aren't as easy or as comforatable to use as the larger 18 and 30b.

[siberianmo]

ben10ben:

Who makes these transformers you mentioned?

I will be the one purchasing the sets, if the price is right ......

My plans would be to simply have a two track layout - nothing really fancy. I'd prefer one power pack for dual train ops ......

Again, appreciate your responsivness and info! [tup]

[Anonymous]

siberianmo,

ben10ben drinks a lot of Kool Aid so you can be sure his statements are accurate.

[ben10ben]

All transformers that I mentioned were made by Gilbert under the American Flyer name...sorry that I forgot to mention it.

[siberianmo]

ben10ben:

Are you aware of any transformers currently manufactured that are suited for running these trains? I'm interested in a power pack that will run both sets.

Thanx![tup]

[Anonymous]

There is another older American Flyer transformer that is powerful enough to run two Flyer passenger sets at one time. That is the 12B that was produced in the late 40's and early 50's. It's has dual variable voltage controls and one fixed voltage post for accessories and is considerably cheaper that the others mentioned. However, any of the larger Lionel transformers should be able to run these Flyer sets also.

[ben10ben]

True, the 12b is another good one, although I prefer the styling and operation of the later "dead man's control" units.

Pretty much any AC transformer from Lionel or MTH(like the new ZW or Z4000) will operate American Flyer Trains. Their cost is considerably higher, though. Also, American Flyers will quite litterally fly off the track at the 20 volts offered by these transformers, while they run quite well(with plenty of speed for you speed demons) at the 15 volts supplied by American Flyer transformers. A new ZW or Z-4000 will run you 2-4 times the cost of an 18b or 30b, at between $350 and $400 each.

As long as you buy a vintage transformer from a trusted dealer, they are perfectly safe to use. Cords do occasionally go bad, but are easy and cheap to replace, and any reputable dealer won't charge extra to install one on a transformer that they are selling.

[Anonymous]

Ben, you're right about flying off the track at 20 volts. I've heard a story or two from friends that let their run kids run their prize Flyer trains with a ZW transformer only to have the trains go airbourne around curves at full voltage.

[siberianmo]

QUOTE: ben10ben Posted: 02 Apr 2005, 20:40:27
True, the 12b is another good one, although I prefer the styling and operation of the later "dead man's control" units.

Pretty much any AC transformer from Lionel or MTH(like the new ZW or Z4000) will operate American Flyer Trains. Their cost is considerably higher, though. Also, American Flyers will quite litterally fly off the track at the 20 volts offered by these transformers, while they run quite well(with plenty of speed for you speed demons) at the 15 volts supplied by American Flyer transformers. A new ZW or Z-4000 will run you 2-4 times the cost of an 18b or 30b, at between $350 and $400 each.

As long as you buy a vintage transformer from a trusted dealer, they are perfectly safe to use. Cords do occasionally go bad, but are easy and cheap to replace, and any reputable dealer won't charge extra to install one on a transformer that they are selling.

Should I wind up with these trains, the transformner I purchase will be for occasional use, as my featured layout is HO. The AF will be really something set apart and probably not operated all that much, so I'm not going to invest "big buck" into a power pack. The info you provided is very helpful and I've made copies to use when and if the time comes ....... Thanx![tup][tup][;)]

QUOTE: James Rotella Posted: 02 Apr 2005, 19:48:30
There is another older American Flyer transformer that is powerful enough to run two Flyer passenger sets at one time. That is the 12B that was produced in the late 40's and early 50's. It's has dual variable voltage controls and one fixed voltage post for accessories and is considerably cheaper that the others mentioned. However, any of the larger Lionel transformers should be able to run these Flyer sets also.

Again - many thanx for the input. Copy made and put into my AF file folder.[tup][:D]

[ben10ben]

Siberiano,
No problem[:)]. Just let us know if you have any other questions if and when you get your American Flyer trains.

[siberianmo]

ben10ben:

Will do![tup]

[Bob Bubeck]

What price guides are available for the era that this particular set was marketed? (I'm going to make the guess that the freight set also comes from that timeframe as well.......).

Siberianmo:

Because you are seeking information and prices on complete boxed sets, the guide that will be most helpful to you is the 2nd Edition of the TM Books American Flyer S Gauge Price and Rarity Guide 1946 to 2004. This is the only guide available that lists all of the vintage Gilbert catalogued sets, the important uncatalogued sets, their train contents, and current valuations.

Hope this helps.

Bob Bubeck

[Sturgeon-Phish]

I run American Flyer and as such I reccomend using the American Flyer transformers. I use a 30B, and I have several 8Bs. For cheap reliable safe use an 8B is hard to beat. The voltage is right for the trains and they are easy to work on too. At train shows I've ran trains with them all day and they did not get hot. The footprint of a 30B is about 12x12, and if space is an issue, the 8B are aout the size of a CD case. I would stay away from the higher voltage transformers if I were you. Besides, the 30B & 8B look very nastalgic.

[siberianmo]

QUOTE: Sturgeon-Phish Posted: 03 Apr 2005, 21:54:20
I run American Flyer and as such I reccomend using the American Flyer transformers. I use a 30B, and I have several 8Bs. For cheap reliable safe use an 8B is hard to beat. The voltage is right for the trains and they are easy to work on too. At train shows I've ran trains with them all day and they did not get hot. The footprint of a 30B is about 12x12, and if space is an issue, the 8B are aout the size of a CD case. I would stay away from the higher voltage transformers if I were you. Besides, the 30B & 8B look very nastalgic.

Appreciate the info. I like the looks of the 18B and 30B with the capability to operate two trains independently - which is what I'm planning to do if these trains become reality for me. Thanx! [tup][:D]

QUOTE: Bob Bubeck Posted: 03 Apr 2005, 21:04:44
Because you are seeking information and prices on complete boxed sets, the guide that will be most helpful to you is the 2nd Edition of the TM Books American Flyer S Gauge Price and Rarity Guide 1946 to 2004. This is the only guide available that lists all of the vintage Gilbert catalogued sets, the important uncatalogued sets, their train contents, and current valuations.

Hope this helps.

Bob Bubeck

It does and thanx! [tup][:)]