Heavy duty or light weight?

[dougdagrump]

I believe that the benchwork should be a function of the layout design. If if will be a larger field that is not fully accessable by reach then it should be strong enough to support a person if they have to walk on it for one reason or another. I everything can be reached from the perimeter then the overbuild is not really required. [2c]

[palallin]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lionelsoni

I'll say it again:

Drywall screws are okay for layout structure that won't be supporting a person. However, they are very brittle, shear easily, and should not be used for anything that might cause injury if it broke.

Deck screws have about the same profile, will resist the rusting effects of scenery better, and also come in Robertson head and Star head varieties. They aren't so brittle.

[lionelsoni]

I'll say it again:

Drywall screws are okay for layout structure that won't be supporting a person. However, they are very brittle, shear easily, and should not be used for anything that might cause injury if it broke.

[Buckeye Riveter]

The sixth time,[:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter

For about the fifth time we dig into the CTT forum archives BTW, if you want the scanned plans just email me and I will send you the .bmp files showing the dimensions of the bench work.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter

[#welcome] to the CTT forum.
Here is an old posting that we just keep recirculating

QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter

Last year, Chief Eagles stopped by when he was in Wheeling, WV at the grand opening of the Cabela's store. He wanted to see what I was doing and how it performed. One of the advantages and disadvantages that I have is the slope of the ceiling reflects the sound out to the operator and viewers.

QUOTE: Originally posted by ChiefEagles

Talk to Buckeye. He has his layout on foam only [yes foam only]. He uses deck screws pushed into the foam and they will hold the track in place. He says they will hold it fine and the track will settle into the foam some after running trains on it. I've seen his layout and it works fine.

Here are some of his photos: [he will not mind and can share more of construction]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Buckeye Riveter

Thank you Chief for those kind words. [:)][:)] I know it is hard for you to say such benevolent statements about a YANKEE from Buckeye Land. [:D]

And now on to the foam. Yes, my whole layout sits on foam. It is high-density 2" foam purchased at Home Depot, one of my favorite stores. The foam sits on joists at approximately 16" spacing. On top of the high density foam sits the 1" white foam.
Again, the Chief is correct, I do use deck screw or drywall screws to hold the track to the foam. If you really have a problem holding to the foam, I use a plastic "Molly" type connection and low heat glue and imbed it. I wished I had taken a photo of this.

The main reasons I used foam were; 1. The layout is designed to move and 2. after shelling out my hard earned money for Railsounds, I wanted to hear it. [:)] The foam accomplished both goals.


My layout extension under construction will not use the 1" white foam overlay, since the two inch meets all the goals stated above.


Approx. same view of layout as above

Q: How do you walk on the layout?
A: I don't. I designed it so I could reach everything. My new addition will have hidden hatches inside the exposed loops. The cat has been know to walk on the layout and hide in the tunnel.

Q: Does it make wiring easier?
A: Much easier. I use an extra long drill bit (10”) and punch through the foam. No drilling required, as you need to do with wood.

Q: Over time does it deflect or sag?
A: We have not seen any sag in the foam. On my previous HO layout the plywood sagged all the time with the changes of moisture in the air.

Q: Where are the transformer and controls located?
A: Under the layout on a small shelf

Q: How much will it hold?
A: I might try to calculate that someday. [:)]

One other thing, if you look near the end of the book, How to Build Model Railroad Benchwork , by Linn Westcott, published by Kalambach, he just starts to touch on the subject on the use of foam. This book is usually found in most decent hobby stores.

The MTH RealTrax is attached very securely to the foam with deck screws. If you want to make the attachment even more secure, paint the area beneath the track with a white glue-water mixture. This mixture just makes the foam a little stronger.

[Anonymous]

Try using Trim Head Square Drive Screws. Your drill won't cam out like it does sometimes with Phillips screws. I found them only a bit more expensive but so much easier to work with.
BillFromWayne
www.modeltrainjournal.com

[Dr. John]

Dave, I agree. Screws are a no-brainer for speed, stability and strength. I use various length drywall screws with a cordless drill. I love it!

Guys, thanks for all of the input. One thing I had not considered that has been brought up - it is more economical to buy 2x4s than it is to purchase 1xs and have extra bracing. Food for thought.

[Anonymous]

The most important thing is to put the benchwork together with screws.
About 9 years ago we built a layout for a museuim.
The local town wanted to save some money so they had a local carpenter build it from our blueprints.
The carpenter decided screws were overkill and nailed it together.
It was late fall and I refused to start building it until they screwed it together. The layout is 8' by 24' so it needed to be ridgid to keep the HO track in line,.
By spring the entire layout had shifited, nails moved. It was a mess. You see it was in a depot that was not temp controled at all.
Now we got somewhere and got heat and airconditioning, and a dehumidfier.
It all stays quite nice now and yes the layout got screwed together by us before we started it.
In case you want to see it, it is at the "End Of Line Park" in Currie MN. There is a web site in case you want to look.
DAve.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ogaugeoverlord

2x4s rule! If you can't survive an air raid beneath it, why build it?

I love you, Keller!

So much I just subscribed to your book.

[:X]

[palallin]

I'm using 2 x 4s simply because they are cheaper. 2 x 4 stud length is less than $2 per hereabouts, but It'd cost me $4 per + screws and glue to make the same length L-girder out of 1 x 2 + 1 x 3. Mine will be open grid, so no heavy plywood top across the expanse. I'm going to use CDC, cookie-cutter sub-roadbed. Neither weight nor mobility are issues for me, as one side will be bolted to the wall studs. The legs for the side away from the wall will also be 2 x 4s. "Skirting" will be in the form of fabricated bookcases matching the others in the room.

[Bob Keller]

2x4s rule! If you can't survive an air raid beneath it, why build it?

[Anonymous]

Heavy for me, the layout is 12x18 and is tottaly mobile... with wheels of course.

[Anonymous]

I may be in the heavy category, although I am amenable to reform. I built two tables, one with industrial 5" casters so it could be moved, and the other with legs the same length as the first one w/casters so they were level. 2 x 4 framing for 3/4 inch plywood with 4 x4 legs and 2 x 4 cross bracing. Little bit of overkill for O Gauge, but they handled a small block chevy (my other hobby) quite nicely.

[cnw1995]

I guess I'm in the heavy category - I put my 7 foam boards atop a layer of collapsed cardboard boxes left over from moving, then a plastic vapor barrier and five+ feet of rock fill hemmed in by concrete walls in a raised crawl space.

My former layout was only 3 by 5: I made a box with a plywood top and pine sides and under-bracing and added folding table legs to the underside.

[lionelsoni]

I use unframed 1/2-inch BC plywood stiffened as needed by steel angles attached with carriage bolts and supported where needed by PVC legs attached with eyebolts.

[FJ and G]

Dr John,

When it comes to the foundation for your layout, i don't see any rationale for skimping like most people do. i use 2x4s in L girder. I've seen thinner sections of wood and there is a slight shake if you bump it.

Don't go light, would be my advice.

Some guys use beams and 2 X6 and larger so by comparison, mine is modest.

Besides, 2X4s are cost efficient to purchase as they are the building standard. Why not stick to the building standard w/your layout as well.

if an earthquake ever levels your house or a tornado lifts your house up to the kingdom of oz, a sturdy table will at least afford more protection if you duck underneath it in time

[Anonymous]

Dr. John:
I'm in agreement, light weight bench work is the way to go. I just ordered six
10" adjustible height casters. Which I'm going to attach to the legs so I can easily roll my 5 1/2' x 17-foot layout away from the wall.




BillFromWayne
www.modeltrainjournal.com

[Roger Bielen]

I used the methods shown in "Model Railroad Benchwork", Linn H. Westcott, Kalmbach Books. Using the L girt system 1 X 's can be used and still provide a good solid frame. I used 5/8" plywood as my deck and I have no problem kneeling on the layout where there's any space left. My framing is such that after cutting the scenery I can separate it into individual tables.

[underworld]

I like a heavy duty outer frame and light weight in between. Light weight doesn't necessarily mean weak. Depands on the material that you use and how it is used. In the past I have used intersecting wire along with polyfoam. Pretty light but with the wire reinforcement it's kind of like concrete. As far as the HO layout you saw in the 70s.....remember this, lumber was LOTS cheaper in the 70s (even in to the 80s) even adjusted for inflation. I was looking at pre made fence sections for my apartment building the other day. The sections that I had bought in the late 80s for $12.99 are now $2 to $46!!!
It sounds like the idea you have will work great....strength with portability!

underworld

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Dr. John]

While I am no expert carpenter, I do take an interest in how people build the benchwork for their train layouts. I have seen some monster benchwork that would probably hold a 1:1 scale train and others that were at risk if someone sneezed.

Heavy-duty benchwork has the advantages of strength, rigidity, resistance to warping and the ability to walk on the layout for access. The downside is expense, weight, lack of portability, more drilling required for wiring. I once saw an HO layout in Birmingham back in the 70's that had 2x6 legs and crossmembers with 3/4 inch tongue & groove plywood! If we were under attack, I'd want to hide under that layout. Still, it seemed like a waste of lumber to me.

Light-weight benchwork has the advantages of less expense, less weight, and possible portability. It can be made to be strong and rigid (using L-girders, for example). I have seen Aluminum and PVC used for structural members (which can actually increase the cost). The downsides can be: May not hold as much weight, more susceptible to flexing and warping.

Personally, I think that the method of construction is as important as the materials. I am planning to go with lighter weight benchwork, carefully braced, with heavy-duty casters to allow the layout to be moved around in the workshop.

Do you tend to build heavy weight or light weight?