Spring switch for reversing loops

[Anonymous]

Are there switches that automatically function (without power/relays/remotes) on reversing loops? I would like to build a continuous running single-line shelf layout with reversing loops on each end. I would prefer not to have to wire relays to trigger the switch, nor do I want to trigger via remote control. I want to power-up and let the train run.

I saw a O-Gauge train on RFDTV that appeared to move the switch points with just the weight of the lead locomotive as it passed through the switch.

Can these switches be purchased or are they modified regular O-Gauge switches from Lionel ?

Thanks

[underworld]

I've seen some things that are weight activated. You may be able to find a section of track like that and modify it to throw your switch machines.

underworld

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[spankybird]

QUOTE: Are there switches that automatically function (without power/relays/remotes) on reversing loops?

Many Lionel, MTH, K-Line, etc. switches have anti-derailing features in the switch. So if a train is coming into the switch and it is not set correctly, it will automatically switch to prevent a derailment.

[eZAK]

To add to what spanky said these switches can be wired right from the track with only three wires.

Atlas uses a spring from non-derailing.

BUT Any switch, with out any motor or throw bars, can be operated with the weight of the train in a reversing loop.

I , at first, did not think this would work to well.
I recently removed all my DZ-1000 switch motors. Yet to be replaced by the DZ-2500.
What I found out was that my engines did indeed go through my three revercing loops with out a problem. Changing direction each time.
The only draw back is I would have to get 'the stick' out to change the points if I want the train to take a certain route.

[tjsprague]

I beleive the inquiry was in regards to non-powered options;

Atlas switches have a spring mechanism so if the train is coming through in the wrong diriection the wheels will just push back the sliding rails. I've had these in the past and they seem to work well. Not sure what the test of time will do to the springs though.

Tim

[Anonymous]

My daughter built such a layout in the living/dining room about four years ago. She used two MTH O-31 switches, and the system worked completely automatically using only the derail feature. The train would approach from the single line, go whichever way it had been left last, go around the oval approaching the switch from the other (wrong) direction, the anti derail function would activate, and the train would depart down the single track to a similar set up on the other end. This arrangement had the added advantage that the train transited the loop in the opposite direction the next time, because it went in whichever direction the switch had been left.

[Roger Bielen]

My Ross, and Gargrave, switches with the DZ-1000 motors will do that. The only problem is with a car that is too light, not having enough weight to keep the wheels from being forced over the rail, same with some steam engine pilots without enough spring load.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Roger Bielen

My Ross, and Gargrave, switches with the DZ-1000 motors will do that. The only problem is with a car that is too light, not having enough weight to keep the wheels from being forced over the rail, same with some steam engine pilots without enough spring load.

I had a similar problem with an 8516 Lionel Tender. It's absolutely amazing what six 12 gauge lead balls glued inside it did for its tracking through switches and crossovers.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Any remote switch will work perfectly, as long as it has a non derailing feature. And it requires zero special wiring. You get a cool side effect with this method, because the train alternates directions around the loop each time. If it enters on the straight leg and exits on the curve, the next trip it will enter on the curve, and exit on the straight.

If you want to use a switch like Ross, Atlas, etc, no motor is needed. There are a number of ways to make the points pull in one direction. A simple piece of spring wire with light tension will allow the train to pu***he points aside. Another way to achieve this effect is to have some fishing weights hang from a short piece of line. You only need enough weight to pull the points over.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

Any remote switch will work perfectly, as long as it has a non derailing feature. And it requires zero special wiring. You get a cool side effect with this method, because the train alternates directions around the loop each time. If it enters on the straight leg and exits on the curve, the next trip it will enter on the curve, and exit on the straight.

If you want to use a switch like Ross, Atlas, etc, no motor is needed. There are a number of ways to make the points pull in one direction. A simple piece of spring wire with light tension will allow the train to pu***he points aside. Another way to achieve this effect is to have some fishing weights hang from a short piece of line. You only need enough weight to pull the points over.

This is the function I am looking for, i.e., alternating directions through the loop w/o any intervention electrically or via human interaction. I use traditional Lionel O track.... so if I understand you correctly, I need a remote control switch, with non-derailing feature, and don't wire it??? Will the Lionel O switches do this? Thanks.

[ben10ben]

Regular old Lionel O22s will work just fine...in fact, I've done it before.

There are also some other alternating direction set ups that can be done easily with O22s and a minimal amount of wiring. I'd be glad to elaborate if you're interested.

[Anonymous]

If you want the alternating directions, you can use the Lionel 022's or you can use the Atlas or Ross switches without any switch machine attached. The points will remain in their last posiition until pushed over by the train. An Atlas switch with the switch machine attached will force the train to take the reversing loop in the same direction each time due to the spring forcing the points back to the original position.

Daniel Lang

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kbruce

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

Any remote switch will work perfectly, as long as it has a non derailing feature. And it requires zero special wiring. You get a cool side effect with this method, because the train alternates directions around the loop each time. If it enters on the straight leg and exits on the curve, the next trip it will enter on the curve, and exit on the straight.

If you want to use a switch like Ross, Atlas, etc, no motor is needed. There are a number of ways to make the points pull in one direction. A simple piece of spring wire with light tension will allow the train to pu***he points aside. Another way to achieve this effect is to have some fishing weights hang from a short piece of line. You only need enough weight to pull the points over.

This is the function I am looking for, i.e., alternating directions through the loop w/o any intervention electrically or via human interaction. I use traditional Lionel O track.... so if I understand you correctly, I need a remote control switch, with non-derailing feature, and don't wire it??? Will the Lionel O switches do this? Thanks.

Correct, it just needs power, but no controller. A regular 022, or better yet an 072 will work just fine. Just hook up the fixed voltage plug, and you are all set.

I did this at a recent train show. The BN train is just coming out of the loop.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Daniel Lang

If you want the alternating directions, you can use the Lionel 022's or you can use the Atlas or Ross switches without any switch machine attached. The points will remain in their last posiition until pushed over by the train. An Atlas switch with the switch machine attached will force the train to take the reversing loop in the same direction each time due to the spring forcing the points back to the original position.

Daniel Lang

Daniel, I worry that Atlas or Ross switches with no tensioning device will cause problems when passing through in the facing point movement. The slightest vibration could cause the train to pick the points. Trailing point is no problem, the points can just "flap in the breeze".

[lionelsoni]

There are "over-center" mechanical arrangements that can hold the points in either position. However, a modest amount of friction might do the trick and is easy to implement.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: [i]This is the function I am looking for, i.e., alternating directions through the loop w/o any intervention electrically or via human interaction. I use traditional Lionel O track.... so if I understand you correctly, I need a remote control switch, with non-derailing feature, and don't wire it??? Will the Lionel O switches do this? Thanks.

I use a similar set-up on my trolley car loop. I have an MTH bump-and-run trolley, the route has a bumper at one end and a reversing loop with a Super-O 112 switch. So the trolley runs whichever way the switch was left last time, comes around the loop, throws the switch in the correct direction, goes and hits the bumper, then heads back to the loop, this time going the opposite direction. I don't even have a controller wired to the switch, it just does it's thing with no intervention. Any Lionel switch with the non-derailing feature should allow you to get the effect you're looking for.

Good luck!

[yellowducky]

kbruce:
I've had 2 problems with non-derailing switches:
1. track voltage vrs.train speed.
Solution: double the lengh of the control rails.
2.steam engine derailing on the straight (main, through) side if curve right after the switch. (for some reason, I had no problem going either direction through the curved leg of the switch)
Solution: make sure you use at least one straight piece of track on the main if you want to curve right away.

Big_Boy4005:
I wonder if my Lionel 2036 (2-6-4) would derail on your far switch?
What's your extreme length and width of this layout? And are you using all 072 switches? I used 027, that might be my problem. Thanks, FDM

[FJ and G]

One thing you may wi***o try (that has in the past worked for me) is to eliminate all resistence in the point spring and simply let the train move the points with its own weight; no springs, no derailing feature needed. I build my own that can do that so I cannot vouch for any particular brand.

You may need to experiment a bit; perhaps add some weights in the lightest rolling stock if you are backing the train in., which is always the biggest challenge.

[lionelsoni]

Frank, Lionel locomotives with 2-wheel leading trucks have a problem with oversteering, which frequently leads to derailment. Put one on a curved O27 track and you will see that the front wheels are turned quite a bit more sharply than they should be toward the center of the track circle. This may be the root of your problem.

The steering can be corrected by removing the front-truck pivot or bending it out of the way, then extending the truck tongue back to the front of the motor. You can drill and tap the front crossmember of the motor to accept a screw for a new pivot that is in approximately the right position.

[yellowducky]

Thanks lionelsoni, I may try that.[:)]