Choosing a good starter set ????????????

[brianel027]

I'm not sure how Redhawk means the question: are we talking actual available sets or sets we would like to see available. On the last thought, I think every set should have some kind of operating car, even if it's a manually operated one. In a set with only 2 cars such as the Great Northern RS3 Lionel set, a tank car is a poor choice. A flat car or a gondola offer more play value than a tank car.

On the topic of deal prices, such as an MTH engine for $150 and others, newcomers tend to go to a local hobby shop for their first purchase. They have too many questions that a toll free mail order operator cannot answer. Therefore they will be paying close to full list price. Meaning Lionel sets are the best deal dollar wise, followed by K-Line and MTH a distant third. Though the MTH sets are quality made and include many top electronic features, they are pricey.... most well above $200. As a former seller of train sets, I can wholeheartedly agree with Dr. John that most newcomers with kids do not and usually will not pay more than $200 for the first set. I know this from experience, not just opinion.

Unfotunately then what happens is the newcomer finds out later on from another more seasoned train buyer that the set they just paid $200 for is potentially available mail order for up to half off that cost, and at least a good third off.

Then they think that the local guy they bought the set from is a crook. They don't realize the wholesale structure as well as the blowouts favor the big mailorder places, not local dealers. I know of more than a few newcomers who were greatly soured on the hobby because of this. They read the sign "Lionel Value Added Dealer" as meaning price (ie: discount). Then they find out that the price was actually better elsewhere, even though "elsewhere" didn't have an operating display layout for them to see, or someone to answer the basic questions.

Functional, practical, affordably modeled operating display layouts always were and still are the very best way to sell this hobby to newcomers and novices. It's fun to see the top line items in operation to instill "the dream." On a matter of practicality, it's well advised to have some affordable, budget trains in operation on that layout.

In my thinking, the selection from all companies of decent starter sets is very good today. What needs to be addressed is getting the discount prices available at the places newcomers are likely to buy that first train set... not just the top big mailorder venues.

A decent display layout is another must, along with some kind of promotion, outreach or advertising. It's amazing to me that there are still people who think Lionel Trains are a thing of the past and no longer made. If they aren't aware of Lionel, it's highly likely they aren't aware of K-Line or MTH either.

[jimhaleyscomet]

barclaysierra,

I am in the market for a polar express set. Not sure how to email you though. You can email me at jimhaleyscomet then add @ and yahoo.com.

[csxt30]

Hi everyone. Well I had quite a few high end Lionel TMCC engs. before, but now I'm sold on MTH. this is a bran spankin new 2-8-0 P&LE with P-S2 I only paid 150.00$ for. But I have to tell you, the sound on this little puppy is just as good, if not better than the Lionel ones I had. This sure beats 10 & 12 hundred for an eng. My boy & I are gonna get an MTH mallet next, Which will be around 500, much more affordable I believe. Well, just my [2c] Thanks, John

[nblum]

I've seen older TMCC locos like Geeps from the late 1990s selling in Like New or Mint condition for $150-200 at some dealers. Add the $100 mail order cab-1 and command base, a $100 Lionel set from Charles Ro, and $100 for track, buildings and scenery and you've got a complete command control layout with two loops of track and switches for about $450-500. Nothing less expensive than that for command control, and you'll get the highest quality horn/bell sounds in the business to boot, even in a 1998 Geep :).

[IronHoarse]

I have been looking at the Lionel 2005 catalog and I am considering either the "Keystone" or "Black Diamond" TMCC sets for a starter set. Either one can be ordered for right around $400 (Keystone for $375, Black Diamond for $415). For $95 I can add a CAB 1 and Command Base. I am leaning toward the "Keystone" because it is a steamer. The "Black Diamond" looks like a good deal, but I do not really want 0-48 curves and would have to buy a bunch of 0-36 curves if I went that way because I need a narrower layout. I may also add two switches, an uncoupling section and a log dump car for around another $150. The total cost will be between $625 and $675.

[Dr. John]

To me, K-Line is doing the best job of offering quality starter sets with a generous amount of track and fairly powerful transformers. Lionel and MTH have nice sets too, but are kind of high for starter sets. Most people buying for kids or to see if they like the hobby are not going to pay much more than $200.00 IMHO.

[barclaysierra]

Go with a MTH set with Proto Sound 2 and you'll never go back. I got one for the annual Christmas train this year because we moved and my G Gauge wouldn't fit in the new "game room". Grandkids had a ball, 6-7 yrs, and figured out how to use the automatic uncoupler on the engine, the special sounds, etc., in no time. I bought some extra track and turnouts and we had trains running around, under and past all the furniture in that room.

Also bought a Lionel Polar Express on a whim, and wish I hadn't. Nowhere near the quality or capability of the MTH, and engine can't make it around the corners without slowing way down. Kids spent all their time with the MTH.

Anyone want a slightly used Polar Express?

[Buckeye Riveter]

My "starter" set in TMCC was a Command Control Ready Hudson, $200 and a string of 4 passenger cars $160. Then the race was on!

[nblum]

I think the best approach for most families is to pick up a discounted Lionel starter set for under $200 ($100 for last year's GN set from Charles Ro). They get currently state of the art track that is durable and reliable, and a reasonably colorful and well made set, and they can add $100 worth of track/buildings and have a pretty nice floor or ping pong table size layout for under $200.

If they remain interested, they can then invest hundreds of dollars in TMCC locos and a $125 or so in the command base and cab-1. The only thing that won't be useful down the road is the original conventional locomotive. Their initial investment is under $200-300 and they've got a layout with switches, buildings and scenery if they want. For that price point with PS2 you just have the original set, no extra track, buildings or scenery, despite the more whizzy sound features.

The command control entry point is just too expensive for most people (let's say $450-550 for a TMCC diesel locomotive and cab-1/command base or $500-600 for a PS2 set and DCS). For those who are willing to spring for that upfront, command is the way to go, for sure, I agree. But that's a big investment for a family with no history in the hobby or limited funds. Most families will use the train around the tree at Christmas and that will be it.

[laz 57]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougdagrump

I have become a TMCC junkie, so if I was looking for, or recommending, a starter set I would look for one that would possibly be TMCC/RS ready. You would have a lower initial expense for a beginner and the ability to upgrade should you want to in the future.

I'm with you too DOUG, I love the TMCC and if I were to start at this time I would definitly look at the new Lionel catalog 2005, and check out the Black Diamond set. It comes with an engine that is TMCC and has the 48 x70 inch track with transformer all the rolling stock, lit and smoking caboose. All this at a MRP of $499. If you look you could get this set fo$400. Thats what I did and ordered one for myself.
If you just want one to try out then go with any of the cheaper Lionel sets. The nice thing about these sets is that they have add ons that cost $99, that you can buy to expand your set to make it as big as you want. Lionel should have done this years ago and would have had alot more people in the hobby. Check it out at the
www.lionel.com
Hope this helps.
laz57

[jimhaleyscomet]

For about $300 I would recomend MTH RailKing set with protosound 2.0. Out if the box it had fantastic sound. Getting the station announcements requires hitting bell and horn button in certain order but my son got the hang of it right away. Plus if you run on a friend's or club's DCS layout you get full remote control. The sets are as low as $250 in the internet leaving enough for a siding or a remote control car. As for the siding, I would quickly transition to K-line snap track or O27 track so I could purchase a Kline or Lionel add on set with a remote operating car. O27 remote switches are below $20 each. MTH switches start at about $35 each!

The other option is K-line's $40 battery operated set.

Jim H

[dougdagrump]

I have become a TMCC junkie, so if I was looking for, or recommending, a starter set I would look for one that would possibly be TMCC/RS ready. You would have a lower initial expense for a beginner and the ability to upgrade should you want to in the future.

[FJ and G]

There are nice starter sets out there.

I made the mistake in 1999, when I returned to 3-rail trains, in picking Lionel's Construction set for $99. I thought at the time that was lots of money and was shocked that the train didn't go in reverse.

Nontheless, I enjoyed the size and reliability of the set and that's what hooked me back to O (from HO).

[Dave Farquhar]

I like the $200 price point, personally, because that allows one with a $300 budget to get some additional track and rolling stock. You might barely squeak in with a pair of switches and enough track to make a siding, depending on the type of track, but you can always add that next year if not. If switches can't make the budget, $100 will easily expand an oval or turn it into an L shape and buy two or three low-end cars.

I've noticed Hobby Lobby seems to keep a couple of K-Line starter sets in stock (unforunately they're often priced at $300+) but they also have a good selection of track and they have the K-Line Train 19 cars in stock. If they had a $199 set I think they'd sell a lot more K-Lines. Those K-Line sets are a hard sell next to a G scale Bachmann set that for the same money or less gives you a comparable number of cars but is much, much bigger.

I really think the key is a reasonably low price point to start, and make it absolutely clear that you can add to it year over year to make it more interesting.

[Anonymous]

I have noticed a lot of new people wanting to know what to start with for the kid's or themselves without having to take a second mortgage. The question is what to buy ? I figure it has to have good play value, a respectable engine or loco, 4 or 5 useful pieces of useful rolling stock, track transformer the usual basics to get the empire rolling. Also a price tag of about $300.00 (I figure this is fair considering a playstation & a couple of games will cost that much). Back in 94 I picked up a Lionel conrail consolidated set for $225.00, It had A GP-7 Diesel,Blue CR 16243 boxcar,Yellow Jefferson Lake 16126 tank car, Brown 16383Flat with Conrail trailer, Blue 16667 searchlight car,Blue 16548 lighted caboose, blue Lionel lines tractor, 2 grade crossings,enough track to make a long figure eight & an eighty watt trans. If you still have funds available, add a couple of switches a few straight 3' and your training. The Main question is " What is a good starter set & what should it consist of" This should keep you thinking on a Sunday. Kind Regard's to All Steve