Where is, and what happened to Madison Hardware?

[Anonymous]

Hey Ya'll


I have just read and article in an old CTT (October 2003) about Madison Hardware. I would like to find this legendary Store and buy some trains from there.

Also, my friend found 2 Scout sets, a 1120, and a 1110. These sets came with a silver tank car, a red caboose, an orange boxcar, a black gondola, and of course the Locomotive and tender.

I have run them, and it has been a pleasureable expeiriance, but, I would like to suprise him with a bottle of smoke pellets that have just been reproduced by someone, I have seen their ads in CTT.

But, I want to know, did the 1110 and/or the 1120 scout locomotives have smoke units? Please let me know before I waste my money on a bottle.

Also, my aunt has a 2-4-2 Columbia locomotive from the Western Gift Pack set.
Does this locomotive smoke too?

Thanks,
Bert and Mary Poppins aka Nick

[1688torpedo]

Hello Nick ! Madison Hardware is long gone now. Everything has been auctioned off and Lou & Carl are also deceased. The best time to buy from Madison was while they were still in New York city pre-1989 era and had everything in stock that most collectors needed. What is the number of your aunts Columbia from the Western Gift Pack.? If it has no smoke unit most likely one can be retrofitted in it. Some of the 1110 scout engines did have smoke pellet units.This can be confirmed by looking at the front of the Engine. If there is a Hole in the casting above the Headlight then it should have a Smoke Unit as the hole was used to force air into the chamber and smoke out of the stack.Hope this helps.................Keith

[cnw1995]

Hi Nick, like Keith said, Madison Hardware was located in Manhatten and is gone now - in a more recent CTT there was some before-and-after pictures of the block. Search 'Madison Hardware' using your favorite search tool and you'll find some more information Its stock was bought by former Lionel owner Richard Kughn (sp), packed up and shipped to Michigan. I was fortunate as a youngster to go there with my dad in the 80s - he had what-is-now-my 248, pre-war 2-4-2 and R transformer repaired there - I have the Madison Hardware tags still on them. I barely remember the place - crowded, overstuffed with stuff, heck it was a hardware store.

[Anonymous]

Actually, from my reading, Madison Hardware started as a hardware store, but in the ened is was just a model train shop. They were the biggest Lionel dealer in their day.

Yep, Kughn bought their inventory & shipped it all to Michigan. The Kughns just auctioned off their collection, including all of the Madison Hardware stuff, so it's now in the hands of who knows how many collectors.

Tony

[wrmcclellan]

Amazing place. I was able to go there several times before it closed.

Richard Kughn bought Madison H/W lock stock and barrel, and moved it to Detroit. It operated there for a while and then everything left was auctioned off as he disposed of his Lionel holdings. It was rumored that it took 16 tractor trailers to haul it all. There was several other storage locations in addition to the storefront.

It was an interesting place. The retail shop was a typical NYC store front - narrow in width and very deep. The inside was a mess, with shelves and cubby holes from floor to ceiling stuufed with Lionel parts. Pre and post war bodies, shells, frames, etc. There were hundreds of the old H/W store style wooden drawers (long depth with multiple bins per drawer) that held thousands of smaller parts such as screws, lamp bases, truck frames, wheels, etc.

Lou and Carl knew where everything was. Absolutely amazing. For most of us, it was mainly a place to buy parts. For others that got to know the Shures, there were some interesting buys on certain trains.

Regards,
Roy

[Bob Keller]

In one of the older TM Books Price Guides there was an interesting story about how Chuck Lebrock (who worked for Kughn) inventoried everything and shipped it all to Michigan.

I was never in the Detroit store, but I was able to buy some nice, boxed postwar items at exceptionally good prices.

I believe that one of the big auction houses is going to have yet another auction of Carail/Madison inventory later this spring.

[cmrj]

Wow never relized how big the store was . It's mentioned on E-Bay all the time. wish I had gone there. I was in New York while it was still open. Mike

[Anonymous]

Sad to say, we are unlikely to see it's kind again.

If you check at Olsen's Toy Train Parts you can find a section that deals specifically with that part of the Madison Hardware inventory that they purchased.

Also, Warrens, Brasseur's, Dr. Tinker, George Tebolt, Train Tender, and a few others seem to have inventory that they can "scrounge around in" and come up with old-but-serviceable parts. Over the years I have dealt with most of them.

There are others. Check out the advertisers in CTT, OGR, and similar magazines, or try various Google searches. One forum member posted that he was able to find a Lionel part just by keying in it's factory part number into Google; but overall, I don't think it's getting any easier to find stuff.

Some years ago I found a perfect postwar ZW for 25 bucks in an upstairs stockroom at a train store in Gettysburg, PA, I think it was. The great thing was that they just "waved me through" the storefront and permitted me to browse at my leisure. If anyone knows where one can do that sort of thing these days I wi***hey would post it.

If anyone finds more detailed info regarding another forthcoming MH auction/sale, please post that too.

Wolverine49

[Anonymous]

Just a little more regarding the passing of the legendary Madison Hardware.

The final incarnation was located at 1915 West Fort street, Detroit, MI. It was not an easy place to deal with. As I recall, one had to make an appointment to get through the front door. Despite occasional visits to the area I was never able to get inside due to schedule conflicts.

I did buy some parts from them via mail-order shortly before they folded up the tent. I recall having to write them a "wish list." They would then sent a list of the items they had which were either exactly what I wanted or "would fit." They included a description of the condition of the parts, which ranged from "New, old stock" to "used, some rust."

There were often several examples from which to choose. I would check what I wanted to buy, include a check, and mail it off. In every case I received exactly what I wanted and the condition was as described. They really knew their parts!

Strange as it was, I miss it.

There is a little history at
http://www.tcamembers.org/articles/chronicles/dickkughn/
and a creative search of Google will doubtless yield more.

Anyone else have anything to add about this lost piece of Americana?

wolverine49

[Dave Farquhar]

I recall reading a story in a magazine about the store when it was in New York. An uppity guy and his wife/girlfriend/date come in and he asks to buy a specific kind of saw. The clerk says, "Hang on," and disappears. He comes back with a dusty saw that must have been sitting someplace for the better part of 25 years and asks if he wants it. "That's the wrong kind of store. What kind of [impolite word] hardware store is this, anyway?" And the clerk just says, "Hey, you're lucky I had that. Does this look like a hardware store? This is a TRAIN store!"

During WWII, when toy production was prohibited, Madison assembled train cars using whatever they had on hand. As the parts supply dwindled, they had to get a bit creative with some of the stuff they used. Occasionally a wartime Madison car or two turns up on Ebay. To deal with the shortage of straight track, the Shurs came up with a machine that bent curved track into straights. And they had an agreement with Lionel where they bought sets as parts and had their own staff assemble it--profit margins were higher that way.

Supposedly Madison Hardware really got its start as a parts business by striking up a deal with J.L. Cowen to buy whatever Lionel didn't want to sell anymore or intended to throw away. Often they paid scrap prices for the parts and/or old stock. Sometimes this included customer returns, which accounts for the sometimes questionable quality of Madison items we see today.

[Anonymous]

Thats Sad,

Its a hame such a good store had to close, ad be auctioned off, instead of keeping its location and continued ny interested investors or such.

Bert and Mary Poppins aka Nick