Why can;t mfg's ?

[Anonymous]

Make a diecast model as detailed as the lionel ho challenger. With the exception of tiny doors etc being cast on everything else is separtely applied.
This engine is the most detailed die cast engine I have ever seen.
I have high end HO tenshodo locos that it is sitting by and it is just as well done as they are and runs way better.
At its original price of 699.00 it was a steal compared to the 1500+ for the lionel and mth version and they can;t hold a candle to the ho one in detail.
The qsi sound system also compliments things like, on startup none of the lights come on until the turbo generator revs up to full. In forward the headlight is dim in reverse and in forward standing still it is dim but the very instant the engine starts to move the headlight is on full brightness. Also 4 chuffs per rev.
We 3 railers are getting ripped off. I only paid 260.00 for mine.
Dave.

[wrmcclellan]

Dave,

I agree with you. The only response I can think of is the much broader customer base in HO and N. Same locos with 3x or 4x the quantity brings the price down significantly (tooling costs).

Regards,
Roy

[jimhaleyscomet]

You might think O is more than HO because of material cost or market size. However, many G engines and cars are the same or less than O! Makes me wonder.

Jim H

[palallin]

I don't believe that those G engines are diecast, a significant factor in manufacturing costs. Take a look at the high-end #1 scale engines: their prices are in the 5-figure range.

[Anonymous]

It still doesn;t answer the question as to how is lionel able to make a beautiful ho challenger and now athearn too that sell in the 200 dollar range.
At least the o gauge mfg's could equal the detail of the ho one.
This is why 3rd rail is such a great product, same price as the diecast but vastly superior in running and detail and with the new cruise control of ta better than lionels.
I still think something is amiss with paying 1600. bucks for a diecast o gauge loco and 260.00 for a lionel ho challenger with a vastly superior sound system and a truely universal command control.

[FJ and G]

I've been citing prices comparing G and O for 2 years now and ranting about it to no avail. In short, I agree 100% w/Jim H.

And to answer palallin's question (which often is raised), I only compared plastic to plastic models.

[Anonymous]

Trainland has what I consider a good deal. They are selling K line diecast 2-8-2 for 219 without command and 319 with command. How many of the other mfg;s will equal that, and yes I have a penn with proto ordered. Dave.

[palallin]

Which plastic G? LGB or Bachmann? [:D]

Make no mistake: I don't like O-diecast's high prices, either, but economy of scale--which is to say, mass production--is a heavy factor. Another is the vastly more expensive tooling for diecast.

As for the HO vs O die cast, part of that is simply the fact that the HO engine wasn't developed by Lionel alone, and it will see life under many guises in much more numerous quantities. Another is what the perceived market will bear: fewer HO people will pay that kind of money. Any who think that price is a function of production and delivery costs plus reasonable profit are kidding themselves. Many items in the market cost 'way more than those totals; many others cost LESS. A marketing company--and that's what almost all of them are nowadays--charges heavily on those items that it can, and loses money on those items which it can't. The bottom line is a net gain (and before anyone knocks that fact, he should understand that people don't manufacture and market goods out of the kindness of their hearts, for they have to live, too. Remember what price IVES paid for selling its high-end goods below cost.).

Like all hobbies, this one costs money, but, unlike some others, you can at least control your costs and still participate fully. The only difference between running a plain jane and a super model is one of degree. Or you can call it snob appeal (or sour grapes, from the other end), if you like.

As for me, I wouldn't pay a dime extra for the cruise control or the command control. Sound is nice, but how many RS engines can one at once without going mad?

[Anonymous]

"I still think something is amiss with paying 1600. bucks for a diecast o gauge loco and 260.00 for a lionel ho challenger with a vastly superior sound system and a truely universal command control."

Yep.. but Lionel is now out of HO market again. Guess they sold them too inexpensively? LOL

Comparing Pumpkins to Grapes, size wise. Your "vastly superior sound system" isn't if the speakers are that small. I have a BroadWay On30 D&RGW engine. Neat that it has sound, outstanding sound no way jose' .

[Anonymous]

And do you find any of the sound systems to have outstanding sound. No way jose as a 2 inch speaker is very limited in fo.
The only difference in sound to my 3 rail engines (all mfg) to the lionel ho is volume and some mid low sounds, and that is not superior sound in my book.
Now if you would like to visit me and listen to my Acoustic Reseach AR9 sound system we can talk superior sound, especially when I have a recording of a emd f3 rumble by and the walls and windows are vibrating with deep bass as low as 16 hz we can talk superior sound. This is at a live 115 db at 8 feet measured with my radio shack vu meter vs a live DM@E in town at 115 db at 8 feet.
Dave. Now compare the pumpkin live sound 2 cycle emd to the o or g scale and the ratio is way further out of line than the ho to o sound.

[Anonymous]

By the way Athearn is not out of HO and they have a new challenger at 249.00
How many high rail scale challengers can you get for 249.00
Remember I said scale and the the small rail king or lionmaste challengers.
Dave.