Scale question...

[Anonymous]

I've been buying as much scenery as possible at local thrift stores in anticipation of the layout I'm designing. Being a complete neophyte, I guess I was under the assumption that my Lionel set from the early 50's (3 rail, Santa Fe and UP locos) was 1:48 scale.
Now I'm recently seeing a lot of references to 1:64 scale being "true"???
Can someone set me straight?
I'm looking at a 1:46 pickup truck and a 1:64 semi right now and there is no way they will both go on the same layout realistically (which I don't care about in general terms, but I'd like to pick one or the other scale and stick with it at least!)

Which scale do people here use for vehicles, houses, trees, people...etc.???

And if anyone has a link to a "general reference" conversion (i.e. avg. person/building/truck = "X" inches tall, etc.) that would be great...I imagine someone with more time than I have may have jotted it down for just such thrift store reference...

[ben10ben]

Generally speaking, 1/48 represents O scale. 1/64 is S scale. Often times, though, companies such as A.C. Gilbert(before the war) and Marx(after the war) would make their trains to 1/64 scale and put O gauge trucks on them. This allowed one to have three rail trains that would run on tighter curves than 1/48 trains.

What Lionel typically did, though, was something called selective compression. They would build a car to roughly 1/48(or sometimes closer to 1/53 or so) in width and height, while shortening the length to allow negotiation on tighter curves. This was the case with the trains you have.

With these shortened trains, other layout accesories built to roughly 1/64 scale would look alright.

[spankybird]

Well BigGameHunter, you have asked the Big Question, especially when it comes to Semi Trucks.

OK for the ”X” number, 1:48 (‘O’ Scale) is also known as ¼ scale or 1inch = 4 feet. So a person 1 ½ tall is 6 feet.

Now for the Semi’s. From what I can see, most of them used on ‘O’ gauge layouts are really 1/64. Its hard to tell by length as there are different length trailers (40 foot, 53 foot, etc.)

Here is a pic of a standard Lionel flat car with a Semi Trailer on it.


Here is a “SCALE” K-line flat car with a SCALE trailer on it (so K-line says)


Now side by side from the top



Note that the trailers are about the same length, but the K-line flat car is much longer.


From the front, the K-line is much taller, and I did measure it, the trailer is 10 scale feet tall, standard for a trailer.

Here is the Lionel trailer with a Matchbox 1/43 scale trackor



This is the tractor next to a scale 1/43 car (GTO)

[Big_Boy_4005]

Generally speaking post war Lionel is considerably under sized for O scale (1:48). Here is a photo I took for another member earlier this week, showing the various sizes of the different stack cars on the market these days.

The CN at the front is Lionel's version, which is much closer to 1:64 or S scale. The one in the middle is a K-line, which is just slightly undersized for O. The one in the back is an MTH premier which is full O scale.



As for buildings and scenery, Plasticville was always considered to be for both O and S. Unless you start putting full scale O pieces next to them they should look just fine. Just don't hand out rulers to your visitors, and they won't know the difference. Bottom line, don't worry about it. Do what you think looks good, that's what counts.

There is a trick to successfully using pieces of different sizes, put the larger ones in the foreground, and keep the smaller ones further back on the layout. Even if they just aren't next to one another it should still look alright.

[wrmcclellan]

I did some calculations earlier. A typical traditional non-scale Lionel 40 foot boxcar is 9.5 inches, which is 38 feet for 1/4 inch to the foot. A 40 foot boxcar for 3/16 inch per foot would be 7.5 inches (S scale). As Ben states above, the traditional Lionel product is closer to O scale than S scale. The exceptions are the Pennsy Turbine and the 8 inch cars which are closer to S scale. So for traditional Lionel, 1/43 vehicles are a bit large. 1/50 are closer (quite a few items are available at 1/50). 1/64 as you state is too small unless you run the smaller LIonel products.

Regards,
Roy

[ole1]

If you are building a Lionel layout and you are thinking about scale you are probably going to give yourself a headache. As stated in previous responses Lionel ( the O & O-27 not the Standard O) are somewhat undersize for 1:48 scale. Vehicles in 1:43 look about right as do 1:50 but this sometimes depends on the manufacture although these are the easiest sizes to find. You might try www.diecastdirect.com or www.ashevillediecast.com for vehicles. Figures also vary in size between ModelPower, Life Like and Scenic Express etc. and a trip to a hobby shop with scale rule in hand is probably the best way to find what will work for you. One thing you might want to consider is the placement of any of your scenic elements and how they relate to each other. For example; if you have a slightly oversize vehicle but it is parked by itself and there is nothing which provides an easy visual refference, like a smaller figure or structure then it will probably work. A lot of getting the "right" size is more of a eyeball thing than a ruler thing. I enjoy scratchbuilding for a Lionel layout and will sometimes start with a 1:48 mock up and then shrink it down (selectively compress) the mock up till it looks right and fits in with the pieces around it. Ole

[brianel027]

I like what ole1 said about it being more of an eyeball thing rather than a ruler thing. Remember most layouts built in the 1950's (even if they were advanced) were still more on the toy side. Consider the outrageous size of the Operating Gateman or the typical Lionel signals... okay the technology wasn't there to make those things smaller (LED's weren't around yet). But those things were also big so they could be seen and appreciated.

I'm an 027 modeler. So I choose my items for the layout based on them being smaller. But I seldom consult a scale ruler. I just go by the "feel" of it. When I started building my own engines, I never once considered actual scale. My "scale" is called under scale. My own RS-3 is undersized by intention, design and on purpose. And I would never trade it for another... it looks perfect on my layout. Call it the art of imperfect perfection.

There are ways of getting around the scale issue by placing larger items at the front of the layout and smaller ones in back to create a feeling of distance. As with the photos above, if you like the smaller Lionel trailer on the flatcar look, you based your purchases to go with that look. If you like full scale, most items that are now say so in the packaging. The companies have been criticized for this, and it seems they've come around to being more open as to whether the item is full scale or not.

But bear in mind our whole 3-rail hobby is somewhat schewed when it comes to scale, from the size of the rails, to the depth of the wheel flanges to the size of the couplers. Nevermind the center rail! You can worry about scale proportions so much that'll you'll stop having fun (and drain your bank account too). So go with what feels right and looks right... it's your layout and it's yours to do as you please.

[Anonymous]

[8D][8D][^][^][:o)][angel][X-)]

[Anonymous]

Man...and here I thought I would find little of the metaphysical world in this hobby...and it turns out it is ALL metaphysics.

Numerous points very well taken...I guess I can put the @1/48 scale stuff in the front and the smaller stuff in the back. My kids are just going to jack it all up anyhow! :)

And those gargantuan Lionel workers...it's a wonder they didn't just kick the crap out of all the other company's employees and create a monopoly from the outset.