'O' & 'On3'

[pbjwilson]

Here's a size comparison. The On30 stuff is very small in relation to 3 rail O. I think they use HO couplers and the flanges on the wheels are made for HO track.

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bigwally

While we're on the subject, if memory serves correct, pre-war Lionel OO corresponds to On3, correct? If so, can anyone point me in the direction of some On3 track? I've got a wonderful batch of OO stuff and a loop of original track (2-rail), but its' age and fragility have me looking for some new rails. Thanks in advance!

bigwally

If you look at the NMRA's standards for On3 and OO you find that they are almost identical. http://www.nmra.org/standards/consist.html#standards

The American OO SIG page also discusses this. http://www.getnet.com/~dickg/nmra/sigs/AmericanOO/AmericanOO.html

Enjoy
Paul

[lionelsoni]

I think that what Wally is looking for is simply .75-inch gauge two-rail track, which would be 3 feet in American 1/48 O scale and 4'8.5" in 1/76 OO, as used by Lionel.

[DSchmitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bigwally

While we're on the subject, if memory serves correct, pre-war Lionel OO corresponds to On3, correct? If so, can anyone point me in the direction of some On3 track? I've got a wonderful batch of OO stuff and a loop of original track (2-rail), but its' age and fragility have me looking for some new rails. Thanks in advance!

bigwally

I don't know anything about pre-war Lionel OO, but OO scale is 4mm = 1ft (1/76)
US O scale is 1/4in = 1ft (1/48) On3 and On30 are O scale (1/48) narrow gauge

[bigwally]

While we're on the subject, if memory serves correct, pre-war Lionel OO corresponds to On3, correct? If so, can anyone point me in the direction of some On3 track? I've got a wonderful batch of OO stuff and a loop of original track (2-rail), but its' age and fragility have me looking for some new rails. Thanks in advance!

bigwally

[lionelsoni]

Chris, that would be the gauge (actually about 14.25 millimeters for O27 track) if the HO wheels had flanges as deep as Lionel ones; and then the HO train would not fit. However, the tiny HO flanges actually touch the tubular railhead close to the very top, where the curvature of the rounded railhead has enlarged the gauge closer to the 16.5 millimeters that they are designed for. Each HO flange actually runs at least .5 millimeters in from the center of the rail, since the rail centers are about 17.5 millimeters apart.

The fact that wheel flanges are put a little closer together than the track gauge, both on the prototype and even more on the model, also helps, as does the shape of the flanges, which are not square to the wheel tread but slope inward away from the rails.

[Chris F]

Bob,

Interesting! Before I posted, I measured the distance between the inside of the center rail to the inside of the outer rail on my GG track at 15mm. Should I have measured from the rail centers? IIRC, I'm not the first to be confused by this one (JLC's Standard Guage?)!

[lionelsoni]

Actually, Chris, you can run HO on O-gauge tubular track. The centers of the O-gauge rails are farther apart than the HO gauge of 16.5 millimeters; and the HO flanges are small enough compared to the radius of the tubular railhead that they run partway up the railhead. The real problem comes with getting through the switches, which is what finally led me to abandon the idea for my own layout.

[Chris F]

Pat,

You used an E8 as a potential example of an On30 engine. You're right that an O-scale version of this loco would look ridiculous on HO track, but that's because the prototype E8's never operated on narrow gauge track - they were too big. Narrow gauge prototypes were smaller than their standard gauge counterparts (ever been on one of the Disney trains?). If you're running 1:48 scale standard gauge (56.5") trains, then 1:48 scale narrow gauge (30") trains will fit right in.

As far as using GarGraves track for On30, I wouldn't go there. First, the distance between the center and outer rail is less than half of O gauge (1.25") by half the thickness of the center rail (not to mention HO gauge (0.65") is slightly larger than half of Lionel O-gauge). Second, the scale flanges of the On30 stock might have trouble tracking on the tubular rail.

[Anonymous]

hey eZAK. I purchased two of the On30 sets. One passenger,One freight. I incorporated it as a connecting railraod to a fishing resort on my lionel layout. the bachman sets run great. no jackrabbit starts with these babies,just realistic slow speeds. they are delicate,however, don't let the 5 year olds handle them.

[palallin]

For the best intro to On30:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/On30conspiracy/

[eZAK]

OK,
I was thinking about On30.

I still can't picture a 'O' scale engine running on 'HO' track.

Here is another therory, Would one be able to run On30 on half of three rail Gargraves track? Provided it is a isolated loop and has the means to switch from AC to DC.

[Anonymous]

I think On30 scale is more realistic for scale figures and houses my next layout will be On30

[hminky]

Check out On30 at:

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/

Thank you if you visit
Harold

[IRONROOSTER]

On3 and On30 are narrow gauge based 3 foot and 30 inch gauges scaled down to 1/48. In practice On30 uses HO standard gauge which is not exactly 30 inches but is close. Locomotives and cars used on narrow gauge were significantly smaller than those used on standard gauge railroads. In the U.S. there were many 3 foot railroads, but few 30" roads. On30 is trying to be a merging of 3 foot gauge with the Maine 2 foot gauge railroads whose equipment was generally smaller than that of 3 foot gauge.

The sets by " Hawthorne Village, Bachman, & others" that I have seen are On30 as opposed to On3. Although the engines and cars are smaller they are sized for O scale people. A lot of people find narrow gauge appealing. Adding a set to your layout means a whole set of added track and electric controls. On30 will be much easier and cheaper to add than On3. Also On30 uses DC current not AC.

Appearance is up to you. On3 is very scale oriented. In my opinion On30 as opposed to On3 would fit in better with the average Toy Train layout.

Enjoy
Paul

[Dave Farquhar]

Narrow gauge lines tended to be short, for logging or mining operations, for instance. The reason usually was economy. There were downsides too, like lower top speeds and incompatibility with standard gauge, but that's why they were typically used for short hauls. There were some large lines too, though, of course, like the Rio Grande.

Hard-core modelers like narrow gauge because they can build small layouts that incorporate a narrow-gauge line in its entirety. Remember, an 8-foot sheet of plywood isn't even a mile in an O scale world, so our layouts look ridiculous to them. But a narrow-gauge modeler can build a perfect scale model of a logging operation in the space we put our loops, and have prototype realism.

As far as what those of us who don't care if our O gauge empire is only 3 or 4 miles in size can do with narrow gauge, you could put some narrow gauge on one side of the layout as a feeder operation; say, to supply logs to a sawmill. Or if you're just into running, put a loop of On30 somewhere so you can take advantage of cheap On30 locos and rolling stock. It's a different look, but that's OK. Real narrow gauge trains looked a bit different too.

[eZAK]

I have been seeing these 'On3' sets all over the place.

They are made by Hawthorne Village, Bachman, & others.

I would like to get one but I have my doubts.
How does a narrow gauge fit into an 'O' gauge world?
Not having personaly seen one in action I am left to visualize what an 'O' scale General or E8 would look like running on rails that are the same distance from the center rail to the outside rail.

Just does not look right!

Also how well do they run?
and How durable are they?