toy/model trains

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bill Sherwood

Where did you come up with the generating revenue part? Sounds like you made it up yourself. I think whether it is a toy is a matter of perception as others have mentioned.

Classic distinction between a toy and a tool. Some of us "O" guage nuts are simple tools, but that is a different dictionery.

[Anonymous]

Hey, I have a Phantom set. I don't think it is a model of anything?[:D]

[palallin]

Of course I "came up with it [my]self." Duh. [8] The point is that anything used for enjoyment only--that is, not making a living from--is a toy. Cost, precision, medium, venue, substance, and indignation are all irrelevant. "Toy," by definition, is an amusement. The phrase "generating revenue" is meant to indicate real work, the antithesis of amusement.

By the same token, of course, they are ALL models: miniature representations of the real thing.

[:D]

[Anonymous]

Where did you come up with the generating revenue part? Sounds like you made it up yourself. I think whether it is a toy is a matter of perception as others have mentioned.

[Anonymous]

Where did you come up with the generating revenue part? Sounds like you made it up yourself. I think whether it is a toy is a matter of perception as others have mentioned.

[palallin]

QUOTE: Originally posted by underworld

Oh and ummm.... palallin....what if they are toy trains that generate revenue........
like here...... http://www.trainorama.net/

As you point out, they're toys, being less than 1:1 scale. I know some folks that have 1:1 scale equipment (including a steam engine) on their property, but they generate no revenue, and they are therefore toys, too.

[}:)]

[tschmidt]

Does it matter? Have fun and enjoy them.

[IRONROOSTER]

What might be called the classic definition would be for O scale, toy train is AC, middle third rail, greatly oversized flanges and couplers. For S scale: AC, greatly oversized flanges and couplers.

These are useful definitions because it helps identify what is compatible. As one in S scale, I know when I see a model and it says toy train or Hi Rail that it won't work with my layout. When is says scale, the Hi Railers know it won't work with theirs. Of course some like Showcase Line have parts in with their cars and diesels to run either way. Others come in two versions like American Models. Some like American Flyer and K Line don't.

Some people use it to differentiate based on level of detail and accuracy. But this becomes subjective. Amercian Flyer and K Line may have less detail or oversized detail compared to Showcase Line, but whether this is okay or not you have to decide yourself.

Enjoy
Paul

[underworld]

I think that toys are more like the tinplate....less accurate representations....but COOL!
Models are either exact scale or close to scale.
Then there are the models that I get paid to take pictures of.....they are 1:1.........
but they are always fussing with their hair!!!!![:P][(-D][swg]

Oh and ummm.... palallin....what if they are toy trains that generate revenue........
like here...... http://www.trainorama.net/


underworld
[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Jim Duda]

Tautologists are always repeating
Their redundancy quite self-defeating.
Just give me my toys,
Us boys will be boys
Sometimes playing is better than reading...

[TurboOne]

Alright Bob its way to early to make me look up words, then to have dictionary .com come say a user of tautology, so now I have to look that up. No fair. [:D]

The best thing about O folks is their ability to roll with the punches. They "play" with their trains. Others operate their trains. At the San Diego Museum, I here the HO folks come over to the O folks, layouts are close, and help them by telling them their trains are not running at scale. I just enjoy watching trains. I like trains in a circle, some that go up and down, or whatever. I just like trains. Now there is tautology. Redundancy of words. [:D]

Tim[:D]

[lionelsoni]

Better that than a tautologist.

[laz 57]

They run around a track therefore they are cool. Don't matter what sixe they are. If you are one of those rivet counters you must be a perfectionist.
laz57

[Anonymous]

Hello all: It's all a state of mind, lets be honest they are all toy's & there is no age limit on toy's. Anybody who talks about scale & precision & dead on operating session's, usually dismisses us lionel, mth, k-line etc as people playing with toy's. But is there really any difference when doing something you love to do??? Regards Steve

[palallin]

If it ain't 1:1 scale AND generating revenue, it's a toy.

"Model" is simply a subset of "toy," the set boundaries depending far more on the observer than the observed (Heisenberg at work).

Example: in my mind, if you were able to reduce a REAL steam engine to HO scale size and still run it as a steam engine in an environment also reduced to HO scale size, it would still appear more toylike than a Postwar Bershire running on three rails. Part of the "reality" of a train is size, weight, and noise. A Postwar Berk has more of all three than the most perfect HO representation. By any other name, it still looks tiny: the further one gets from the size, weight, and decibel level of the prototype, the more toylike the result. It has little to do with accuracy of detail and everything to do with presense.

[lionelsoni]

My impression is that "toy" trains are much more likely to be put on shelves to be looked at than are "model" trains, which are almost always "played with". The "toy" trains may have been made to be played with. The "model" trains certainly were.

[DSchmitt]

The distinction between a "model train" and a "toy train" is very fuzzy. Model/toy trains, no matter what scale, can be either or both. There are cases where the distinction is clear, but in the vast middle ground, the distinction is in the eye of the beholder.

At the extreems: A model is a dimensionally accurate, detailed represention of the prototype. Models are made to look at. A toy is a non-scale representation of the prototype. Toys are made to be played with.

The setting is also a factor: In general model trains are set in plausible scale scenery. With toy trains there is less concern with scale and the relationships between scenes.

Some consider method of operation a factor too. But both models and toys can be operated in either a prototypical or toy like manner.

All gauges/scales of trains have both scale and toy components.

The puropse of T-Trak is the same as NTRAK That is: to encourage modelers who don't have much space to build something, encourage fellowship amoung model railroaders through Meets, and promote model railroading in general, and N scale in particular to the public.

T-Trak was developed in Japan using Kato track components on small easily transportable standard size modules.

T-Trak was brought to America by Lee Monaco-FitzGerald after she and her husband Jim FitzGerald saw them in Japan. Lee and Jim featured them in the NTRAK newsletter and Lee built the first American T-trak modules.

Many of the T-trak scenes I have seen are toylike, but there are also some very fine model scenes too.

The basic exhibition type operation for both NTRAK and T-trak is not prototypical, but this does not preclude developing ways and adding "non-standard" sections to allow operating prototypically.

[lionelsoni]

It's the same as the difference between dolls and action figures, that is, no real difference at all, except for the conceit in the minds of some of the players.

[pbjwilson]

Toy train

Model train


Model trains are models of a prototype - toy trains are representations of a prototype but usually more colorful and "toylike".

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dtpowell

Unless the scale is 1 ft equals 1ft, they're all "models" to me. A toy train is more of a caricature or cartoon of a real train. While a scale "model train" would be a close or exact representation .

You just introduced a subjective element into the mix. I think that many "O" guage trains qualify as "Models" while some of my "N" guage friends disdain them all as "Hi Rails." To keep peace, I describe what I have as "Toy Trains." Besides, I play with them. I have friends who have "O" guage on display that cost several thousand dollars a copy, and which have never felt electricity through their windings. Even so, describe them as models, and some "N" guage nut is going to call you down for it. YMMV.

[Anonymous]

Unless the scale is 1 ft equals 1ft, they're all "models" to me. A toy train is more of a caricature or cartoon of a real train. While a scale "model train" would be a close or exact representation .

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zebra

What is the difference between toy train and model trains. We are into N guage T-trak modeling now but it looks like toy is the same thing. mars rover]

As Ironhoarse says, many people use the term interchangeably. Some however, will jump right on you about your "O" guage stuff which has rails that scale out at about eighteen inches high, couplers that are nowhere near scale, and a wide range of actual scales on everything. Two "O" scale boxcars can be further apart than a small O and an HO. So we try to ameliorate the grumps by calling our stuff "toys."

Many of the people who jump on you do "N" guage, which I am told is modelled much truer to scale that my toy "O" stuff. There has been a recent movement in "O" toward accuracy in scale, but it's tough because of the couplers. I noticed that MTH recently brought out a ICRR 2-8-0 which is available in regular and "Scale" wheels. If their website is to be believed, only two dealers nationwide ordered "Scale." I don't know, but I would almost bet, that the difference in the wheels will let them run on low profile track without derailing at every switch. So, zebra, to be safe, if it's "O" guage, call it a toy, and you can call your "N" guage stuff models.[:D]

[IronHoarse]

Basically if it is not a full size train it is a toy or model. Toy and model trains are the same thing in my book.

[Anonymous]

What is the difference between toy train and model trains. We are into N guage T-trak modeling now but it looks like toy is the same thing. mars rover]