An Open Letter to Jerry Calabrese, CEO Lionel, LLC

[Gorgeman]

Buy your sons another train set, when the repair comes thru
on the old set,place it on ebay at 50% of what you paid for it -
Thats the system nowadays...

[IronHoarse]

Glad to hear that everything worked out! Have fun.

[Anonymous]

First and foremost: If you buy something with a credit card and it is not 100% satisfactory, you have 60 days to formally dispute the charge, in writing, to your credit card company. You must follow a specific procedure, so call your credit card company and ask them if there is a form that you need to fill out, and ask them the specific addrsss (usually NOT the payment address) for the dispute to be sent to. Email and phone does not protect your rights under Federal credit laws. Written complaints, sent through the mail, to the correct address, do protect your rights ONLY IF you do this within 60 days.

If you buy something with a credit card and it does not work, you can do whatever you want to get it fixed, but first you should call your credit card company and get the charge dispute started. Then you can see what the original seller will be willing to do to fix the item. At no point should you release the dispute on the charge if you do not have the item back in your hands in working condition. BUT, when you have it back, you can withdraw the charge dispute and inform the credit card company that you worked it out with the vendor.

If the item does not work, and the credit card company gets your WRITTEN charge dispute, they will make the vendor pay them back, and that means the vendor will be much more willing to do whatever it takes to fix the item so that you will drop the dispute. Otherwise, it is them, not you,, that is stuck with an inoperative item and no sales revenue.

No one would take the time to play hardball like this for a $39 boxcar. But for a $300 train set, or a $750 engine, you better take the time or you will be spending a lot more time with emails, phone calls, trying to figure out where your items are, etc.

[brianel027]

Good job Pete, and good job Lionel for taking care of this guy!

Pete. yeah it can be frustrating as we all read in your detailed posts. I never felt you were being unreasonable... you just wanted the trains to work. Some of us regular train forum posters can all tell you we've seen threads with legit complaints on customer service turn into name calling sessions.

The electronics today in the trains are wonderful but can also be a liability... it a littler harder to just fix things yourself as one can more easily do with the older trains.
Pete, your apology shows you're a decent guy and also puts a nice ending on the story.

I don't work for Lionel, but here's what you can do for them.... the next time you see a thread with someone worried with concerns over Lionel service, tell them your story and to be patient... good advertising never hurt anyone and I'm certain Lionel would appreciate that!

And if you get a layout up and running one day, have some young friends of your kids over to show them and spread the word... seeing the trains running at someone's house is some of the best advertising Lionel can hope for, especially to get kids into the hobby (it is such a great hobby for kids!!!) I'm certain the folks at Lionel would appreciate that one too.

We all make mistakes. What matters in the end is how you deal with them.

[Frank53]

I'll give ya this Peter - you're a stand up guy.

Not that my respect matters - but you certainly have it for your public apology.

[Anonymous]

I am glad everything worked out for you pete. Enjoy your trains.

[Anonymous]

Dear Mr. Calabrese & Lionel Staff,

I so wi***hat I had waited another day before I started publicly posting my experiences with your company and repair chain. If I had waited, there would have been no reason for my postings. My boy's engine, tender, transformer and caboose were delivered to my home today while I was at work. Your repair time was much faster that I expected, and still fell within the 4 week time frame that I was told back in December by your customer service staff. I should have sent it back to your team in Chesterfield, MI the day I discovered that there was something wrong with it, or I should have allowed Charles Ro to handle the issue. I should have never brought it to the local dealer for repair. Please accept my apology for dragging this issue onto a public forum. Some of the responses to my threads were humbling. I regret doing what I did. It wasn't right of me to do to a company that is doing it's absolute best to bounce back from a tough verdict.

After an hour session with the engine, tender, and transformer, my boys and I found nothing wrong with them. All functions work up to specification now. It is very relaxing to watch my boys play with a train in perfect working order. After seeing and listening to how the train set should work, I no longer have issue with the amount of money I spent on it. The train set my boys have now is well worth the money I spent on it. I'm now considering putting a deposit down on an Acela set.

If there is anything I can do to assist Lionel in the future, please let me know.

Sincerely,

Peter Rohrman

[cbojanower]

Dear Jerry

About a months ago I mis-placed the number board on my Lionmaster Challenger that had become loose due to a derailmant (one of those things I meant to fix)

I emailed the Service Center and after verifying which model I had, they mailed me 2 replacement pieces free of charge

Thank You

[highrailjon]

Dear Jerry, Thank you for an outstanding service department!!! In the beginning of September my out of warranty H-Class LI Consolidation (6-38036) developed the "odyssey lurch". I called your Tech Support on Sept. 16 and explained my problem to the women there. She shipped and I recieved a replacement board on Sept.23. After installation the engine is running teriffic. Thanks again, Jon[:D]

[Buckeye Riveter]

QUOTE: Originally posted by IronHoarse

I am thinking of getting into this hobby and have been reading this forum for a couple of months now. It seems like there is a bad quality control problem with many of the manufacturers in this hobby. I wonder what will be my odds of buying a train that has no problems when and if I decide to buy. With prices as high as they are in this hobby, one would think the quality would be higher.

Peter I am sorry to hear about this problem. I hope you get it cleared up. Please let us know the final out come.

I know the disappointment of buying something like a train engine that does not work. [:(]Due to my education from reading this fourm for over a year and trading stories with others here on the forum, I now purchase my electronic locomotives only from a nearby (100 miles + )dealer. My last two new high tech engine purchases were removed from the box at the store before payment and ran on the test track to see that everything was working, such as the smoke, sound, couplers, and motor.

I purchase cars anywhere I can find them due to the minimal comparative investment, so I would also have gotten stuck if a smoking caboose didn’t work. [:(!] I do believe, based on the comments of many, that Charles Ro would have assisted in getting the original problem corrected.

Lack of quality due to executive shortsightedness has been the demise of many of a good company.

[Anonymous]

Macaste,

I have no complaints of Charles Ro. My current opinion of them couldn't be better. I'll bet that they would have exchanged my set (1) if they had one in stock, and (2) either they or I had thought of the option when I called for an RMA. It was a short conversation. It probably just slipped their mind as an option as it did me as well.


Pete

QUOTE: Originally posted by macaste

Pete,
I have purchased many items from Charles ro. They have always provided good customer service to me. I did have to pay for the shipping back to Just trains ($14.00).
I paid for shipping($11.00) and insurance($3.00). They paid for the shipping of the new item back to me. If charles ro had another in stock, then in order to make you happy, they should have exchanged the unit for you.This is all dependant on if they had another in stock at the time. It would be in their best intrest to resolve this problem for you if they could.

[Anonymous]

Pete,
I have purchased many items from Charles ro. They have always provided good customer service to me. I did have to pay for the shipping back to Just trains ($14.00).
I paid for shipping($11.00) and insurance($3.00). They paid for the shipping of the new item back to me. If charles ro had another in stock, then in order to make you happy, they should have exchanged the unit for you.This is all dependant on if they had another in stock at the time. It would be in their best intrest to resolve this problem for you if they could.

[Anonymous]

Macaste,
I did contact Charles Ro about the same time I contacted Lionel for an RMA number. They gave me an RMA number over the phone (unlike Lionel). The said that they could fix it under warranty quickley. Charles Ro didn't propose to send me new set. I didn't think to make that proposal either. Charles Ro said that I was responsible for shipping it back to them. Charles Ro said that they would pick up the shipping back to me. I decided to take it to the local Lionel Service station first for these reasons:

(1) Lionel's turn around time was a joke.
(2) Both Lionel and Charles Ro wanted me to pay for shipping to them.
(3) I assumed that Lionel kept a close eye on there Service Stations' training and stocking needs wich lead me to belive that Larry's Model Trains in Midland Park, NJ was just as competent as the tech's working for Charles Ro.
(4) A local drop off and pick up shaves 2 weeks of shipping off of my return time.
(5) Lionel's RMA number was in transit to me, and I didn't know when I would get it.
(6) I got a strange feeling about Charles Ro while talking to the person that gave me the RMA number. It was like he dreamed up the number. As soon as I asked him for it, he gave it to me without a fraction of a second of delay. I didn't hear him make a single key stroke on a computer to generate an RMA number. He said to attache the number to the shipment, and include my information in the box. I don't think that he took down my information. I was a little scared that my train would get lost.
(7) The local guy said that it would take about a week if he didn't have parts. And a few days if he did have the parts.

In hind sight, I should have sent it back to Charles Ro, or proposed that they send me a new set. I didn't have the image of them in my head that I have now of them. I didn't have much interaction with them, and I had no input about them at the time. Now, I think they are a solid, well run company. If I had thought that well of Charles Ro back in late December, I might have my train by now. I plan to use Charles Ro for all of my future train needs.

Pete

QUOTE: Originally posted by macaste

One other question to you peter rorman. Did you contact charles ro supply and tell them the problem? Some large mail order companies have multiple sets. Long ago I had a problem with a broken plastic door on my lionel sd 60 BN. I called back Just tarins of delaware and told them the problem. Just trains told me to send them back the engine and they would send me a new one. I got a brand new engine with no problems. I have also had good experiences with Island trains.

[IronHoarse]

I am thinking of getting into this hobby and have been reading this forum for a couple of months now. It seems like there is a bad quality control problem with many of the manufacturers in this hobby. I wonder what will be my odds of buying a train that has no problems when and if I decide to buy. With prices as high as they are in this hobby, one would think the quality would be higher.

Peter I am sorry to hear about this problem. I hope you get it cleared up. Please let us know the final out come.

[Anonymous]

One other question to you peter rorman. Did you contact charles ro supply and tell them the problem? Some large mail order companies have multiple sets. Long ago I had a problem with a broken plastic door on my lionel sd 60 BN. I called back Just tarins of delaware and told them the problem. Just trains told me to send them back the engine and they would send me a new one. I got a brand new engine with no problems. I have also had good experiences with Island trains.

[Anonymous]

Jaabat,

I followed the directions in both the manual and video that came with the set. It was very simple. I'm am a Sr. Level IP Network Engineer, and I am very use to reading and following technical manuals for equipment that far exceed the complexity of a toy train before I take the equipment out of the packaging. Yes, there was smoke fluid in the caboose. They asked me to return the engine, along with the transformer to troubleshoot the sound problem, so I complied to avoid them claiming that I was non-cooperative. I didn't want to give them any excuses.

I to am new to this hobby. I picked it up because my boys are crazy about trains. I live a block from a train station that has been the catalyst for my boys' interest. This was my first purchase of a train set. Good luck to you too in this hobby.

Pete

QUOTE: Originally posted by jaabat

I'm wondering why you sent the engine off to be fixed the first time if there was nothing wrong with it to begin with. The Railsounds is located in the tender only. I'm new to the hobby myself, but the obvious questions would be did you put smoke fluid in the caboose and did you try turning up the volume on the tender?

I feel badly for what you've gone through. I hope it gets resolved very soon!

Jim

[Anonymous]

Repair centers suck. Here in Texas I buy through mail order most of the time. I took the engines I had problems with to my local train shop. I mostly buy scenery and rolling stock from them. I have bought 2 lionel engines from them though. The owner said he would repair them if I had bought them from him. Then he said he did not have the parts and the new electronics were too complicated for him. He told me to send them back to lionel and have them repaired. He said "they know how to fix these new engines better than I can". All over town the response was the same. Everyone ,the local train shops, told me all they would do is send them back to lionel themselves. My solution to electrocoupler problems is to buy the parts myself and replace them. When major problems are present ,such as boards that are bad, then you have to send them to lionel. Good luck with your train set.

[Anonymous]

The items I have returned to lionel always came back within a few weeks. This was not a problem. However, they (Lionel) never fixed my engines to my satisfaction. My SD 40 UP,and UP U30C still do not work right. I like lionel engines and continue to buy them for now. They should have sent you a test sheet with your engine. The test sheet enclosed with my Sd40 said "engine checked out Ok all functions worked".

[4kitties]

Peter,

I'm so sorry for you! I can't imagine any company that wants to remain in business to treat their customers the way you've documented. With the number of repairs they have in the queue I guess I'd better hold off on sending in my Polar Express and my Y6b loco's for warranty work.

Joel

[Anonymous]

He's been doing chat sessions about once a month to publicly address the MTH/Lionel scandle.

I'm just getting started in this hobby. My first layout for my boys is about 7'x6'. I have the frame made out of 2x4's in one of my livingrooms. It doesn't have legs or plywood yet. I'm hoping to get legs on it tonight. Now, all I need is a train to run on it.

[FJ and G]

Wow, didn't know Calabrese hosts a chat session

welcome to the forum & let us know the progress of your layout as well!

[Anonymous]

Jerry,


I did not see an answer to my question that I posted on this evening's
Jerry Calabrese/Lionel Chat session, so I'll post it publicly hoping to
see an answer:


Jerry,


I purchased a Lionel train set for my boys for Christmas for $350 (part
#: 6-31962). The RailSounds and Caboose were dead on arrival and
weren't discovered until Christmas morning. As of this day (Feb. 16,
2005) that is almost 2 months since Christmas, we still don't have the
train set because it has been bouncing between a Lionel Service Station
in NJ and the Lionel Service Center in Chesterfield. This was my first
purchase of a serious train set. My first experience with Lionel tells
me that you have major problems in quality control off of the assembly
line, customer service issues, dealer Service Station training issues,
dealer Service Station part stocking issues, and Lionel Repair Center
service times. (1) What is being done to address the issues of quality
control, customer service, Dealer Service Station training, Dealer
Service Station parts stocking, and Lionel Repair Center turn around
times? (2) Will my boys see their train back by St. Patrick's Day? If
you need some recommendations of what to do, please see the letter that
I sent you dated January 8, 2005. Please see the detailed summary of my
experience with Lionel below.


Peter Rohrman


Nov. 30, 2004 - I decide to purchase a serious train set for my boys. I
have never purchased a serious train set in my life. I decided on a
Lionel because I knew the name. It was a Nickel Plate Road Super
Freight train set (part #: 6-31962) that I purchased via phone order
from Charles Ro of Malden, Ma. I'm excited!!!!


Dec. first week, 2004 - Received the set, checked for shipping damage,
and placed in storage for Christmas. I'm very excited!!!


Dec. 25, 2004 - We Set up the train set for first time. The sound
didn't work, nor did the caboose emit smoke. Everything was setup as
specified in both the video and manual. I'm not happy.


Dec 26, 2004 - Sent email to [e-mail] asking for
recommended course of action to correct the situation. I'm trying to
stay positive.


Dec 28, 2004 - [e-mail] responded to my email inquirery
dated Dec 26, 2004 telling me to call Lionel for an RMA number. There
was no name of a specific person in the signature of the email from
[e-mail] I called the number, and I was told that you
don't give RMA's over the phone. I was informed that Lionel would mail
me an RMA number. I was also informed that RMA turnaround time was 4
weeks at the time. I was also informed that Lionel won't reimburse me
for shipping the RMA to Lionel. I'm still trying to stay positive.


Dec. 30, 2004 - The Lionel RMA would have taken 6-7 weeks total time
from Dec 30, 2004, so I decided to take my train set to Larry's Model
Trains in Midland Park, NJ for warranty repair. Larry's is a few miles
from my house. Larry's is a certified Lionel Service Station. I'm
trying to stay positive hoping that Larry will fix the train sooner than
Lionel can.


Jan. 7, 2005 - Received the RMA number from Lionel Customer Service.
I'm holding onto the faith that Larry will return my train any day.
Trying to stay positive with my faith in Larry.


Jan. 8, 2005 - I sent Jerry Calabrese a letter to the Lionel
Chesterfield location describing my first experience with Lionel, my
dissatisfaction, and my recommended corrections for Lionel to take.
Jerry never responds, nor does he have customer service attempt to
contacting me. This does not surprise me. This is typical CEO behavior.


Jan 15, 2005 - Larry's Model Trains returns my train set to me. He
claims that it is fixed. He claims that the reason why it took so long
to repair my train was because he didn't have the parts in stock. He
returns the train to me in worse condition than what I sent it to him
in. Not only does he not fix the RailSounds, nor Caboose smoke, he adds
a new "feature" to the engine. After the engine has been traveling
forward in forward only mode, it sometimes decides to go backwards. The
only way for me to correct the situation is to remove the engine from
the track, place the forward/normal switch to normal, place it back to
forward only mode, and return the engine to the rails. You wouldn't
believe how angry I am at this point.


Jan. 18, 2005 - I decide to use the RMA number that Lionel supplied me.
I send my engine, tender, caboose, transformer, sales receipt, letter
describing the problem & dissatisfaction, and Larry's repair ticket to
Lionel in Chesterfield, MI via FedEx.


Jan. 20, 2005 - My shipment is signed for by R. Stroker of Lionel in
Chesterfield, MI at 9:51 am.


Feb 7, 2005 - I send a status inquirery to [e-mail] and
[e-mail]. I called Customer service. Constance Duey gives
me the attitude that she's heard it a million times. She tells me that
the service department is currently working on RMA's received the first
week of January, and that I will have to wait my turn. She doesn't care
to hear my story. Her only interest is to get me off of the phone.
Without me knowing, she takes my RMA out of the repairs queue because
she doesn't like my attitude.


Feb. 8, 2005 - I receive about 10 email messages from both
[e-mail] and [e-mail] . They conflict in
information as to what is being done. One says that my train is being
returned, and the other says that there is no record of my train being
repaired and returned. I am asked to call Customer service to get this
straightened out. I call customer service back, and they refuse to talk
to me. After about 10 calls to customer service, I learn that Constance
Duey took my train set out of the repair queue. She refers me to her
supervisor Mike Brugan (spelling?) for all future discussion on this
RMA. Mike Brugan is out for the day. I called Jerry Calabrese's
office to talk with him about this issue. His receptionist blocks me
and takes a message. Jerry never returns my call.


Feb. 9, 2005 - Mike Brugan of Customer service calls me to inform me
that he has returned my train set to the repair queue. No ETR.


Feb. 15, 2005 - I still don't have my train set back. I have no idea if
or when or what kind of condition it will return to me in. I see that
Jerry Calabrese is hosting a chat session, so I decide to put this
together for him. I doubt that he will read it, nor do I think that he
cares. Lionel has made me feel like one of P.T. Barnum's "Suckers".


Feb. 16, 2005 - My boys still don't have their train.