Do E-Bay Sellers Hire Bidders??

[FJ and G]

I've never used eBay (yet) and only had time to read about half of your responses, but I've got an idea for eBay (perhaps they already are doing it).

On eBay, I assume there's a posted deadline time.

Instead of a deadline time, why not post a deadline date, and program a random time generator that would cut off bidding at an unknown time during the deadline date. That way, there's wouldn't be last minute snippers, colluding bidders and scallawaggs.

[palallin]

I do that all the time, macaste, but I am not a shill bidder, nor do I do it on the items I am selling. I'm just trying to get something on the cheap.

QUOTE: Originally posted by macaste

To all of you who don't think sellers bid on their own items. I am bidding on a tyco ho scale track. I set my max bid to 20.00. I was the only bidder and the bidding started at 1.00. One day I noticed 5 new bids. I was suprised to see that I was now the current high bidder. Someone had placed five bids 2.00,5.00,10.00,15.00 and 20.00. Since my bid was placed first I am the lucky winner. The bids were all placed by the same bidder. The bidder did not have the same name but it was the seller or a friend of the seller. I sent a message to the bidder and told then all they have to do is bid 20.50 and the item is theirs. I have recieved no reply and I am still the high bidder. It is like the bidder knew what my maximum bid was and did not bid above that.

[lionelsoni]

The bidder did know what your maximum was. Each time he bid, your bid automatically went a little higher, until he bid $20. The fact that yours did not increase told him that you had bid a maximum of $20.

[Anonymous]

To all of you who don't think sellers bid on their own items. I am bidding on a tyco ho scale track. I set my max bid to 20.00. I was the only bidder and the bidding started at 1.00. One day I noticed 5 new bids. I was suprised to see that I was now the current high bidder. Someone had placed five bids 2.00,5.00,10.00,15.00 and 20.00. Since my bid was placed first I am the lucky winner. The bids were all placed by the same bidder. The bidder did not have the same name but it was the seller or a friend of the seller. I sent a message to the bidder and told then all they have to do is bid 20.50 and the item is theirs. I have recieved no reply and I am still the high bidder. It is like the bidder knew what my maximum bid was and did not bid above that.

[jkerklo]

I have been suspicious of some sort of shill bidding, but in a special way.

I have placed "my max bid" for an item early in the auction and the auction stays well below it for a few days. Then, in the last few minutes of the auction, my winning bid amount goes up by small increments. Sometimes I win, but very close to my max amount, and sometimes I lose, but to a bidder just over my max bid.

The details of bidding by the same bidder don't show in the bid list, just the results, so I can't be sure if anything is funny. It could be a rival bidder just trying to go over my max bid by just a little, or it could be a seller shill trying to up the bid to my max.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[lionelsoni]

Charging more than the actual shipping and handling costs is against the Ebay rules.

[TurboOne]

I just enjoy ebay. If I win, whether a early bid or sniping, I win, if I lose I lose. Sometimes I made a good buy, sometimes a poor judgement buy. But it was fun. And isn't that why we all are into trains, for the fun ? Glad everyone made up, hopefully we all learned more about how to bid on ebay.

Take care all

Tim

[underworld]

Hello Hutchman,
Yes some sellers do charge a lot for shipping. I always try to find out what shipping is before I bid. I also know that some of the high shipping fees are a fault of eBay itself. Ebay charges fees on the final selling amount....but not on the shipping and "handling" amounts. I do know of dealers that sell items like cell phone batteries for cheap.....like .99 US but then charge $10.00 for shipping.

[Anonymous]

Wouldn't you know it...just a couple days after I made the post above, I won two small Preiser sets on ebay....the knucklehead seller wanted to charge me $11.50 to ship it to me....talk about a padding job...

[Anonymous]

Hi GP, will consider this case closed as well! Sometimes we all have a
tendency to over extend our mouths.
My apologys to you and anyone else for being offense.
I will say this I give you credit -I learned quite abit about this bidding go round!
Good Luck![:)][:)]

[Anonymous]

I make quite a few purchases on ebay and I often do, as many of you have suggested, just put my max proxy in the max I am willing to pay. I do some research before hand because I've seen people pay more on ebay than for what they could have gotten from a business or hobby shop. I have seen some supicious activity, however, and I stay away from them.

It is interesting that the dynamics are far different on the German ebay (ebay.de). They are very good at waiting until the very last minute to start the final auctions. I know some Germans that put multiple windows up to make their bids. My German wife got torqued at me for missing out on something she really wanted (a special Faller kit...yes, my wife really supports the model train hobby...that's why I love her so much)...I wasn't fast or savvy enough...I thought I had a bid that was high enough....oh well.

[GPJ68]

Why am I gonna step in this again....

No, certainly not the literal definition from childrens books and folklore. I reserve that for my last girlfriend...

From Dictionary.com:

troll

An electronic mail message, Usenet posting or other
(electronic) communication which is intentionally incorrect,
but not overtly controversial (compare flame bait), or the
act of sending such a message. Trolling aims to elicit an
emotional reaction from those with a hair-trigger on the reply
key. A really subtle troll makes some people lose their
minds.

Unfortunately, I allowed your ill-informed comments about "sniping" and the character of such bidders to get my goat - something I've usually just shrugged off in the past (and will continue in the future after this pointless fiasco). Some might even say I trolled you, although that was definitely NOT the intent, it was an ill-timed over-the-top reply to your less-than-complimentary comments about closing minute bidding. I prefer to treat others as I want to be treated - not so sure about you, reading the bitter vitriol you've directed at me for something as silly as this "discussion". If you truly weren't trolling for a gullible goob like me to stir up, then I apologize.

Incidently, I did a bidder search on ebay for "expogs6" and found a gentleman whose recent purchases mirror what you've mentioned in previous posts here. What's interesting is that bidder's bid history on items doesn't exactly reflect what's been said here about placing early bids, placing maximum bids, not bidding in the closing few minutes (even if it was to protect the high bidder status on a UP Berkshire steam engine, 10 times, first time an hour before closing, last time 19 seconds before the end of the auction). That ebay bidder appears relatively new to the system and perhaps not real sure of how the proxy bidding system works, judging by the number of times he's bid in several auctions raising (or protecting) his own high bid, especially towards the end of some auctions. I've noticed over the years that's a pretty common occurence (multiple bids one right after the other) with new ebay folks, until they get the hang of the system.

Now that could very well be someone else, and I mean no insult to you or him if it is or isn't. But if it is you, one shouldn't throw stones at last minute bidders if one has done so himself, for whatever "justifiable" reason.

And feel free to search for "gpj" on ebay - I've got a solid feedback rating, have bought alot and sold some, and try to follow what I preach. Although I have been guilty of occasionally raising a bid slightly if not successful the first time (and when I do, I usually feel a little guilty for breaking my own "one-time-max-bid" rule). Everyone's gotta slip sometimes. The most anyone can say about me on ebay is that I'm "cheap".

That said, I consider this whole unfortunate event closed. My apologies to any (including CTT) who have been offended by my tone or opinions. Forums can be difficult to appropriately express emotions and opinions. And I can be one sarcastic bugger. And replies can come off as having much more attitude than intended. Maybe "the other forum" actually has the right idea about ebay-related posts......

[Anonymous]

WELL GP, IF i AM A A troll--by definition-a dwarf, live in hills,or mounds, stumpy, humpbacked
inclined to be a THIEF, etc. then you HAVE to be one of the most LOW-LIFES on this planet by
your own definition and what you do and the way you do it!!
Now this is supposed to be a train forum and we were both wrong , I simply started asking about info snipes and you have your opinion and I have mine.
WE can keep on with this or we can take it to a HIGHER level if you so desire outside of the
forum---
You leave it alone and I will like wise!!
Have a nice day.[:)]

[Anonymous]

The attitude displayed by GP pretty much illustrates the reason I have no interest in eBay. Used to play there in the start-up days, but no more.

[AntonioFP45]

Hello Crew,

I'm glad this thread was brought up. Some of you guys are right! I've seen items won and yet the next day re-posted for bidding. Not common items, but hard to get items so I have gotten the strong impression that some of the sellers (including hobby shops) bid up on their own products.

As for sniping. Yes, I'm guilty. If it's an item that I really would like and the price is still reasonable I go for it. I keep the shipping costs in mind and watch If the bid price gets to within $5 of what the item costs at the LHS. If it does, I don't go for it and support my LHS.

I've also been sniped. One person sniped me by one penny on an Atlas U-Boat! What could I do? Wish him the best.

Peace out!

[Anonymous]

I am both a last second bidder and also have been caught by others who do the same thing. Most of my last second bids are not planned, but only happen as a result of just signing on and seeing an item that I would like to add to my collection. I very rarely go through the list of items and plan my attack as a result of when the item will close.

So yes, my frustration level does rise when I get outbid at the final gun on a one of a kind, mint condition old relic. I also try to enter a max bid early in the process (when possible) so that when outbid in these situations, my bank account doesn't suffer as a result of over paying for any specific item.

Thanks

[lionelsoni]

Great idea, expog6, no bids in the last two minutes! But wait--then the snipers will just bid a few seconds before the last two minutes. Okay, no bids in the last 4 minutes--no, 10 minutes--no, the last day. Okay, everyone bids in the first 5 seconds. There. That solves the problem.

[GPJ68]

Well, it looks like I goofed up and missed the "Don't Feed the Trolls" sign.

expog.........

forget it.... You're trolling, I fell for it once, shame on me. Not again.

Have a nice evening.

[Anonymous]

One of the train auctions extended the time if a bid came in the last 15 minutes. The auction was open for another 15 minutes to let others bid and so on. The last bid had to ride out a 15 minute wait.

Bet the sellers really liked this system. It would eliminate the sniping and sellers and ebay all would make more money.

Charlie

[seacoast]

Ebay is multi billion dollar corp. and I have bought on the site in the past, but
do some sellers ? yeah maybe - very easy to generate interest in a boring item by placing false bids..

[Anonymous]

WELL GP if you want to follow "rules" why don't you put your max bid in early?? Whether I win the thing or not I put in my highest bid in pleanty of time!! I don't "whine " about anything, if it or you or anyone bothered me that bad I wouldn't be there in the first place.
The most of you "snipes" haven't even put in the first bid to start with, and further more you don't
have the will to do it, you had rather "sneek" to win without any concern!! I hope E-bay will put a stop to this and have no bids during the last couple of minuets .
You remind me of the Army snipers--One Shot To Kill--no respect for anyone or anything but themselves and their kill---
If you can't "remember" you do a good job of it., at last 10 seconds---Is 10 seconds all your memory is good for??
I personally -you coldn't hire me to snipe for any price!! I do my bids early and thats that..
Obvious maybe you and others need medication to help "re-develop" your train of thought---
Watch out for "trip wires" they can hurt you--Take it from a Army vet pro----
PS: My internet connection ain't all that great either, but I still get my bid in, plenty of time!!

[lionelsoni]

Shill bidding and sniping seem to have gotten confused in this thread. Sniping is simply bidding at the last instant and is perfectly legal within Ebay's rules. The incentive to do it comes from some bidders' reluctance to put in their real highest bids. Shill bidding is using a third party to drive the bid as close as possible to the amount that the highest bidder will pay, regardless of whether any bona-fide bidder is willing to bid that high and without any risk to the shill, who won't have to buy the item in any case. It is against the rules.

[Anonymous]

Regarding auction ends, the last 20 seconds is the most important. This is where decisions are made regarding who is willing to pay the most for the item. I can go down as close as 3 seconds before putting in the last bid as a sniper and it is still fair and square if my bid is more than yours.

I dont think ebay sellers want to hire bidders for this sort of work. The large artillery is firing and the fat lady is singing while the music reaches it's last bars. It's over when it's over.

[FJ and G]

I know this dude who bid up his own item. He was tossed from eBay permanently.

I've never used eBay (but may in future), but have 2 friends who make a living off of buying and selling on eBay. Read that: They don't have a job, it pays their salary.

One lady I know has a 1-yr-old girl. She buys clothes on big sales, lets kid wear them, then sells them for more than she paid.

I often see trains on eBay selling for far more than they're worth. perhaps some trainiacs are doing this too.

[Anonymous]

I have purchased a fair amount of stuff on Ebay, and have not really noticed this. I did however, overhear a conversation at a train show in Greenwood where two guys were talking about what they would charge for items, and one said that if he didn't get what he wanted for an item at the train show, he would list it on Ebay, and his friends would bid it up for him. After hearing that conversation, I have been more careful in Ebay bidding. I am sure that kind of thing goes on, but I don't know how widespread it is. Like the others in this posting, I always steer clear of people that have relisted items on a regular basis. After a while, you can notice who those people are.

[Anonymous]

Of course there are dishonest people out there.

But if we were bidding on the same trains at a public auction, have you ever noticed the auctioneers have people bid against you on certain items if the price is not what they intend it to be?

[Anonymous]

I guess I am a "sniper" - if I really want an item, I determine the max I will pay and wait until the last 20 seconds to bid my max....if I lose, oh well... fortunately I am retired and a night owl, so I can bid at any hour if necessary.

[GPJ68]

Well it's obvious from a few comments that some out there are just whiney ***ed sore losers looking to blame someone else for their inability to comprehend the simple rules established by the online auction community.

If you place your highest acceptable bid - the most you're willing to pay for an item - when you bid, REGARDLESS OF THE TIME OF YOUR BID, then you have nothing to whine about if and when you lose, BECAUSE YOU ALREADY BID THE MAX YOU WERE WILLING TO PAY!!! Someone else just wanted it more than you!! If you're not bidding the max amount and getting beaten in the closing seconds, then IT'S YOUR OWN **** FAULT for not placing your max bid in the first place!! Whether you bid 10 minutes after a seven day auction starts or 10 seconds before it ends, if you don't bid the maximum amount you're willing to pay, then it's your - and your's alone - fault that you lost the auction, PERIOD!! It's not the alleged "sniper's" fault, it's not a mystery shill bidder jacking up the end price for the seller, it's not an evil conspiracy - YOU LOST!!! GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON TO THE NEXT LISTING!!

Sorry to yell, but I'm about fed up with whining crybabies boohooing about how they were "cheated" out of a good buy on ebay in the closing seconds by some "lowlife sniper" that won't play "fair". I got news for ya - the auction ain't over till the fat lady sings; and on ebay auctions everyone that can read knows EXACTLY when she's gonna light up her pipes, right down to the second. ANY bid placed between the opening and closing times of the auction is absolutely FAIR, regardless of the timing. And if you're crying cause you lost an auction in the closing seconds, then all I can say is - I HOPE IT WAS MY BID THAT BEAT YA!!! Because, unlike you, I did place the max amount the particular item was worth to me, and it just happened to be higher than your bid.

Speaking as a well practiced ebay marksman, "sniping" is "one shot, one kill" or in auction terms "one bid, one win (or loss)". It's not "stealing", or "cheating", or "unfair" in any sense. The benefits are several - keeps me from falling into any bidding wars early in the auction, prevents me (usually) from re-bidding on an item and going above my pre-determined max amount to try and "win at any cost", allows me to sometimes get a decent buy on an item over someone else who didn't "follow the rules" by placing a max bid of their own, keeps me from establishing a detailed bid history on similar items that anyone can research, prevents me from placing too many bids on too many auctions at one time and losing track of what I'm winning, losing, and spending. And just like a live auction, if the item is really worthwhile enough for me to bid my hard-earned money on, then I gotta be there to bid on it right to the end. I will at times place bids earlier in an auction, but mostly only when I know I can't be around at the time it sells.

There are also a few risks - my incredibly lousy internet connection has potentially cost me a number of good buys, and my memory ain't what it should be - meaning I tend to forget about ending times for some items and miss out completely. But that's ok, I'm not gonna whine, because if I miss bidding and winning an auction, it's MY OWN FAULT and nobody elses.

Sorry again for yelling, several who have replied cleary have a very good understanding of online auction practices and proceedures. It's the whiners (and not just the few from this thread, but others from previous threads I didn't reply to) that finally managed to get under my skin and hit my tripwire. I'll go find some of my medi-medi-medication now and go put the pink elephants flying past my head to bed........

[Anonymous]

Ebay is a sellers game on popular things like Lionel trains. Many dealers will come in and buy to flip or sell them again at a higher price so there are very few deals. I would think some shill bidding is going on but not too much in Lionel as there are lots of us buyers. I have never gotten a deal or below market price on Lionel like I can at train shows where I am the one buyer if I am there first and have the item in my hand. It is between me and the seller to bicker on the price.

I have gotten a few good deals on Buy it Now . This happens when I have a Favorite listed and I am notified of an item being listed. If the buyer just wants to get his price fast and does not know the market very well you can do ok. BUY it Now is a poor choice for Lionel.
I have about given up on buying Lionel on ebay.

Charlie