Industrial Rail Hoppers: Derailing

[Jumijo]

I ran my 3 new industrial Rail O27 hoppers last night for the first time, strung together, in with my Lionel NYC Flyer set. I had a lot of problems with them derailing on Fastrack turns. In the entire time I've owned the Lionel set, I've never experienced one derailment. Only the IR cars derailed. Any tips on how to make the IR hoppers behave and stay on the tracks?

Jim

[laz 57]

JIM,
I have 4 IR log cars that do that too. They are known to do the derailing my suggestion is to break them up and put them behind Lionel or Other brand cars it seemed to work for me.
laz57

[Jumijo]

Thanks, laz57,

No wonder they were 3 for $18.00! I was surprised that the hoppers kept derailing because of their weight. They have some heft to them (my 4-4-2 really smoked pulling them). I thought lighter cars derailed easier than heavy ones. Too bad, because they really are nice looking.

Just for the record, is K-Line rolling stock known to derail too?

Jim

[jimhaleyscomet]

Sometimes adding weight to the cars helps.

Are they derailing on curves or switches? If they are derailing on "switchback" curves try adding a short straight lenght in between the curves.

Are there "heavier" or hard to pull cars following them? If so try them at the end of the train.

Jim H

[waltrapp]

I have an issue with my 3 at times too. In my case I was able to rearrange them (turn the 'front' to the 'back', switch which car was in front of another, etc) and then they never derailed again!!! I have the 3 of them grouped together since they are 3 of the same coal hoppers.

- walt

[laz 57]

JIM you are right their products are nice and they are priced right but they have that derailing flaw. So space them out and I think you'll be ok.
laz57

[Jumijo]

Jim H,

The hoppers were placed at the end of the train, just ahead of the caboose, and derailed on curves. I have no switches to worry about. After switching one of the hoppers around, the derailments seemed to go away, but after hooking just the three new hoppers up to a tank engine, it started all over again.

If I ever do get the "troublesome trucks" as my daughter called them, to behave, I'm going to mark the front of each one on the underside so I'll know how to arrange them. Each car in the set has an individual, sequential number, so I know which one goes in what order. I'll also try splitting them up between Lionel cars.

Jim

[iguanaman3]

Are the trucks on those hoppers real loose in the frame? I don't have these cars but I have had other derailing "problem" cars. I put a washer on the trucks to tighten them and they track much better. Loose trucks allow the car to tip over in the turns too easily. Overly tight trucks will also cause derailments but most trucks are too sloppy.

[Anonymous]

Jim,

Which hoppers do you have, the covered hoppers or the the ones with a coal load? I own 50+ Industrial Rail cars and have had few problems with any of them. But back to the issue at hand, if you have the covered hoppers the plate that the truck attaches to may have been installed upside down, you want the dimple that the truck attaches to face down. About half of my covered hoppers have had this problem, it causes the truck to bind on the undercarage of hopper. I have not had any problems with the IDM open hoppers with coal loads and run they with my Lionel VIRGINIAN Rectifier set without a glitch.

[brianel027]

I have talked about this before. I do like the IR cars and I have 027 curves. And I've had some spotty problems with this derailing. There are two potential causes:

One is the opening of the coupler... the space inside the coupler when the knuckle is closed. This is not only a problem with the IR cars... if you run different makes of cars together you could run into this problem. I've had this problem with some K-Line cars too. Take any two cars and couple them together on the floor or a clear table. Turn the trucks as if the cars are going around a curve and you can feel the "bind" of the couplers... this is what causes the cars to derail when running forward on curves. This can be fixed with a Dremel tool by grinding out the inside space a little bit. You can use a Sharpie black marker to blacken it again. On the K-Line cars, I think the problem is because some of the knuckles are actually very thick... compare them to a Lionel one and you can see the difference. The thick knuckle also contributes to a very small opening space inside the closed knuckle. Rememer this space inside the knuckle needs to be big enough to allow another car to be coupled and have some room for minor movement.

The other problem is truck wobble. But the truck wobble should only be a serious problem when backing the train up.The trucks on the IR cars are not nearly as loose as are some of the Lionel and K-Line cars where the stamped rivet is used. Still, if you pick up the car, and grad the coupler you can wiggle it and see the wobble. You have to remove the frame or disassemble the car. The trucks are held to the frame with a washer and screw. Using a Dremel tool, you need to grind down just a little bit off the height of the nub that protrudes into the frame.

This is the one real drawback of the IR cars. The trucks are very nice and roll nicely. The coupling works well too. It is just the space inside the knuckle. I sent my obvservations to IR a long time ago and never heard from them.

[Jumijo]

Follow the link to see which hoppers I have:

http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=200406141

They are open top hoppers with a coal load. I tried prying the coal off, but didn't get anywhere. I didn't want to damage the cars. If I ever do get the loads off, I'll check to see if the hardware was installed correctly. What's the best way to get those coal loads off the hoppers?

The hoppers did behave this weekend when spaced apart between Lionel cars. Only one derailment. I was hoping to run them linked together, but whatever works.

The trucks move very freely. It was one of the first things I noticed. Perhaps they should be tightened? Also, I'll try openeing up the couplers as suggested. The Lionel cars, when linked together, do have some wiggle room. Other than that, I'm stumped. The wheel flanges look the same as Lionel's.

Thanks,

Jim

[brianel027]

Those coal loads are kind of a dumb design. Yes, they are tough to remove. They are glued inside the car in at least a couple of spots. I have been lucky and patiently / carefully pryed them off several of those cars.

In the case black colored hoppers, the color is easy to match. I also have made the coal loads smaller in dimension inorder to actually fit inside the car. You'll notice that if you do get the loads out, there is a lip that actually rest on the edge of the hopper, keeping the load ontop rather than totally insdie the car.

Those red NYC hoppers are a little more of a challenge on the color match. I say this in case you need to do some touch up from gettting the coal load out.

Try gently using a small flat screwdriver (with a piece of masking or electrical tape wrapped around the end) gently prying or working your way around the entire coal load. Some of those loads do come out easier than others. If you end up breaking or cracking the load, that's okay. The load is way easier to fix than the car... a little glue, maybe a brace underneath and some flat black paint.