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Disapointed with Model Railroader Special Edition O gauge layout.

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Disapointed with Model Railroader Special Edition O gauge layout.
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 30, 2005 12:58 PM
I just built a layout that was in the January 2005 version of Model Railroader..

It is called the Coal Terminal & Trestle Railway. (In the book)

It stinks!!The max speed I can run my trains are at like 30 power! If I run them at a normal speed, they will crash! I bought 50 027 tracks for it and 2 boxes of trestles. I am so dissapionted! What should I do?

(G0 back to fastrack[?0

, Thanx guys,
Colin
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Posted by ChiefEagles on Sunday, January 30, 2005 1:23 PM
A lot of coal trains in the mountains did not fly anyway. This is especially true if they were pulling a long consist of full hopper cars. If you have some room, put a few half straights or straights in the curves. This will help ease the sharpness.

 God bless TCA 05-58541   Benefactor Member of the NRA,  Member of the American Legion,   Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville Laugh,   KC&D QualifiedCowboy       

              

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 30, 2005 1:50 PM
Snell, It is that youre loco is a jackrabbit, it doesnt run slow at all. I have 3 of them myself.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 30, 2005 3:17 PM
I don't have enuogh room for more track.

my loco is a 4-4-2
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 30, 2005 3:39 PM
Like I said, youre loco is a jackrabbit
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:21 PM
So what should I do? buy another loco?


Thanx,Colin.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:44 PM
Can You try another layout? It's always fun to build and experiment. Try something else to dump the disappointment and encourage yourself. You'll find a good way. That's the fun of this hobby.
Go Pats!!
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:46 PM
I have just finished the wiring of the same layout. This was motivated by the Lionel, Southern GP-38 freight set Santa brought me last year. My problem is that the engine derails, if it is run with the short end forward. It is ok running forward or in reverse with the long end fwd.

This year Santa brought the UP 4-6-4 which uncoupled, just for fun, usually going up the incline. I think I fixed that by running a different car behind the engine

Both were flawless on fast-track around the Christmas tree.

My 50 year old Scout is fine on both tracks.

I suspect that the trucks on the GP-38 are binding somewhere, Is this a common problem with some engines?

Thanks in advance,

Bob
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Posted by pbjwilson on Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:51 PM
Colin,
The 4-4-2's can be kinda tippy on sharp turns. See if you can find a set of Alcos like Roy posted in The Sunday Photo topic. Those really stick good on sharp turns and look good going around them.
Another thing you might try is putting a O-42 curved section at the start of a curve. I'm not really sure what your layout is or how much room you have but the O-42 curves can ease your train into the curve.
I really like my 4-4-2 that I've had for 10 years now. You do have to ride the throttle though to keep it from taking a tumble in the curves. They also get alot smoother in operating them a long time. Mine was a jackrabbit when new, Now that its 'aged' it has settled down quite a bit.
The other thing is learn from this layout and make your next one better! I always thought that the layout I was working on would be my last and best. Many layouts later I think of them more as a transition into something better and a learning experiance for the next and better layout. And above all have fun! That's what a hobby is for.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:54 PM
Maybe go for a beep, you can run that WOT and no worry about derailing
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 30, 2005 7:20 PM
? for snell 50, Is this the same layout featured in CTT Jan. 04 issue ? It is a Coal Terminal & Trestle RR. I was going to build it .



















? for snell 50. Is this the same layout featured in Jan. 04 CTT issue,It is titled as Coal Terminal & Trestle RR ? I was going to build it.
THANKS
ROZY





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Posted by jimhaleyscomet on Sunday, January 30, 2005 7:47 PM
A beep is great if you make sure to get the one with enlarged coupler opening (I opened the opening a tad myself with a hobby knife and another one with a dremmel tool).

As far as track derailing....I have found that if I snug up the tubular track around the track pins (especially on the inside of the rail) I can usually reduce or eliminate derailing.

Jim H
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Posted by ben10ben on Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:02 PM
As mentioned earlier, a good old postwar engine with Magnetraction will probably be your best bet.

The early series ALCos and 622 switchers, both with cast frames, weigh plenty and have good, strong Magnetraction to hold onto the track well into curves. Both have exceptionally well made motors that keep right on going with only a little bit of maintenance(easy to do).

I also understand that Beeps run more slowly, which will be well suited to such a layout.

Your Atlantic has a gear ratio of 3.2:1. This means that for the wheels to make 1 revolution, the motor must turn 3.2 times. Most postwar worm geared engines will have something more along the lines of 6:1(just guessing, I've never seen that officially recorded, and haven't taken the time to experiment for myself), which will increase your available pulling power and lower the high end speed.
Ben TCA 09-63474
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:58 PM
Thanx guys. But what is a beep ? And where can I find a Alco?



Thanx.,

Colin.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 30, 2005 9:00 PM
A Beep is a Baby Geep.

Ive written that to you a number of times now.

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Posted by ben10ben on Sunday, January 30, 2005 9:48 PM
Any good local train store that handles postwar trains should have a good affordably priced set of early series Alcos or switchers. You might even get some that run well but look rough for around $100 or so. Ones like that typically don't sell very well, so stores are often willing to sell for rock-bottom price just to get rid of them. If you can wait for a show to come around, there should be plenty there as well.

If you buy one, though, just make absolutely sure that you are getting the early versions. The early versions have a cast frame with a silver battery door in the center(on the powered unit), and weigh a fair amount. These are some of Lionel's best running engines. The later versions will have a sheetmetal frame(no battery door), be much lighter, and run like crap.
Ben TCA 09-63474
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Posted by Bob Keller on Monday, January 31, 2005 7:19 AM
FWIW the purpose of the layout was to point out that you have have a lot of running on a 4x8 sheet of Plywood. There are a finite number of trackplans that can combine high speed, O-27, and a 4x8 foot universe.

Bob Keller

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 31, 2005 10:00 AM
Colin, here is the slighly expanded version of this layout that I built last year:

[img.nr]http://www.vothphoto.com/files/toy%20trains/ctt/TrackPlan_small.jpg[/img.nr]

[img.nr]http://www.vothphoto.com/files/toy%20trains/ctt/Elevation_small.jpg[/img.nr]

The secret to making this work is to choose engines that can handle both the tight curves and the steep grades. I have found that engines with cruise control are the best choices. The smaller semi-scale Railking engines with PS/2 are ideal.

This is really a fun plan that puts a lot into a small space, but to give it a chance you need engines that will operate well. The little steamer you have is the worst choice for this layout, unfortunately. It is geared so tall that it cannot maintain speed on tight curves and you must fight with it going up and own the grades.

Try "upgrading" your locomotive. I think you will find this layout will work well.
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 31, 2005 4:08 PM
Oguageoverlord, Will this layout go together with O31 curves & fit on 5x9 ?
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 31, 2005 4:39 PM
Thanx. Looks cool. I'll think about it....

What kind of software did you use to display the layout?


Thanx,

Colin
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 31, 2005 5:49 PM
Originally posted by garyvot

Colin, here is the slighly expanded version of this layout that I built last year:

Hey I like that! Is there a trick to stretching the 4x8 plywood? Maybe a shelving outrigger. I don't mind riding the throttle, keeps you on your toes. I still wonder why my GP-38 derails.

Thanks for the track plan,

Bob
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 31, 2005 6:56 PM
The track planning software is called RR-Track. An excellent product for designing layouts with sectional track.

Unfortunately, this expanded plan won't qutie fit a 4x8 table. It's closer to 5 1/2 x 9. Note that this plan uses some 42" curves and turnouts, and a few Marx 34" "wide radius" curves which you can find sometimes on eBay or at train meets. (It's a shame that no modern manufacturer makes this geometry for O27 profile track.) My expanded "mainline" has an outer passing siding that effectively creates an outer loop for running locomotives that cannot handle the tigher curves.

Back to Colin's original issue, I still think cruise control is the answer. But be warned: few modern scale-size locomotives run on 27" curves. At best you can a few scale switching engines that work okay on 27" (the Railking USRA 0-6-0 is one), and some smaller diesels will work. Traditional-size Lionel stuff and Railking items can be found, but not always with cruise control. (The Lionmaster Hudson is one nice semi-scale locomotive that works on this layout despite being rated for a minimum 31" diameter curve.)

If you can be happy with a few well-chosen engines and traditional-sized rolling stock, then this is a great layout for a small space. If not, then you might want to stick to a track plan with 31" or larger curves. You will get less action in a 4x8, but that's the tradeoff you have to make.
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Posted by lionelsoni on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 8:56 AM
Amen on the O34, Gary. My outer main line is O34 for the same reason. However, I have been able to find simple modifications to run everything I want on O27 curves, including a Big Boy, Train Master, 773 Hudson, 16-wheel flatcar, and numerous long passenger cars.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 11:49 AM
Hey Ya'll

Snell50, why not try 0-42 curves on a larger sheet of playwood. Or go with ) gauge tubualr (better any way) and use those curves. The higher rail is supposed to keep the engines on the track better.

Bert and Mary Poppins
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Posted by JamesShannon on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 12:36 PM
I have a Lionel Pennsy GP9 from the late 90's that works on 027 curves even though it is not supposed to. My kids run that on all kinds of crazy temporary layouts and they can't make it derail even if they want to. That loco was $230 new so much cheaper now on ebay or used plus it has TMCC and Railsounds and Magnatraction. I also just picked up the Steel Service Set from 1996 which is a switcher and 3 ore cars < $200 like new used, a wonderful little (TMCC, Magnatraction) set that would fit in with the industrial theme on that layout. Just some thoughts.

Jim
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Posted by 3railguy on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 1:19 PM
IT WASN'T MY FAULT!

OK, you can blame the engineer.

I did the origional trackplan for the Coal Terminal Central and it was published sometime in the fall of 2003. It was called the Indianapolis and Hartford City Railway. It was designed as an inexpensive starter set expansion layout. Yes, the curves are sharp and the trestles are steep. But, that's Lionel 027.

With lighter, higher geared engines, you need to keep your hand on the throttle. That's part of the fun and I think I made mention of this in the origional manuscript. One suggestion I can make is to isolate the downgrade with insulating pins and jumper it with a 25 watt ceramic resistor (the ohm value depends on the amps your engines draw) or use a seperate transformer phased in to the main transformer. This will slow the train down as it decends the grade.

I agree on 042 and fastrack, but again this was designed to be an inexpensive 4 x 8 layout with an interesting twist to it. BTW, Fastrack wasn't on the market when I designed the layout.
John Long Give me Magnetraction or give me Death.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 1:32 PM
Yeah, I have that issue of CTT.


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Posted by lionelsoni on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 1:51 PM
Using a resistor to descend a hill is a better idea than using a separate transformer set to a lower voltage. Running from one block to another with different transformers powering the two blocks requires that the two voltages be not only in phase but equal. Any difference in transformer voltage will be the difference at the rail gap that will be shorted by the pickups and could result in a substantial fault current, which, even if it does not trip a circuit breaker, could mess up the pickups.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by 3railguy on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 3:58 PM
Lionelsoni may very well be right on two seprate transformers. However, I've never experienced this on the crossovers on my layout where I have two loops powered by two transformers. I've always used an old multi post ZW transformer when doing this with grades.

Another idea is to bank the curves. That would be cool to watch. You can do this by adding shims under the ties or trestle feet. Finding the right angle takes some tweaking. Too steep and the trains might topple over at slow speeds. A smooth transition is required too. Otherwise you could derail the train.

John Long Give me Magnetraction or give me Death.
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Posted by lionelsoni on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 4:16 PM
If the voltage difference is not very much, the current can be limited to a tolerable level by the source impedance of the transformers. Going from block to block on level track, you would want to match the voltages anyway, which minimizes the problem. I mentioned it here because one would deliberately set the voltages to be different between the level and the grade.

Another way to reduce the voltage is to put back-to-back diode pairs in series with the center rail. Each pair of diodes will drop the voltage by about .7 volts. A bridge rectifier with + and - connected together will drop about 1.5 volts between the ~ terminals. This eliminates the fault current, is probably less expensive than an additional transformer, and gives the same voltage reduction regardless of the current drawn by the locomotive.

Bob Nelson

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