The two locomotives above have two motors each, and the motors look quite similar, but are listed with different part numbers. I noticed the GG1 seems to move more slowly then the train-master under the same conditions of a load. Are they geared differently or are the motors actually different in spite of the fact that they seem to look alike.
I don't own a 2340 but looking at the Lionel Service Manual, I do see a couple things. The motor (complete) for the 2330, 2340, and 2360 is No. 622-100. Whereas the 2321, 2331, and 2341 use a 2321-100 motor. Their armatures and brush plates also have their own numbers. This does suggest that something would be notably different about these motors, initially I thought perhaps the armatures have a different worm- but the 2340 etc uses worm wheel (gear) 622-181, wheras the 2321 etc uses worm wheel (gear) 623-22. But in the service manual, it tells you to reference the 622, which should be exactly the same aside from the operating bell- this leads me inclinded to think the "worm wheel" is the same more or less, which means the armature's worm would have to be the same... I'd love to be able to compare these two motors in front of me, you've got me very, very curious about something I never thought about before...-Ellie
"Unless bought from a known and trusted dealer who can vouch otherwise, assume every train for sale requires servicing before use"
I know so little about these "nuts and bolts" kinds of things that I am amazed that I stumbled on something that any one never had thought of, and I also wonder what that might be. But perhaps if I had given the manual as deep and careful reading as you did, I might know! What I noticed is merely that the illustration of the motors seemed very much the same, although they had two different numbers. I wondered if either the amperage draw or the gearing was different which my have explained a slower rate of speed at the same transformer setting and the same cars if any aspect of the powertrain was different be tween the two locomotives.
I am inclined to think the GG1 is the heavier of the two locomotives, that could have something to do with it. The gearing could potentially also have an effect- there's more gears (and wheels) involved in the drivetrain of a (1950 onwards) GG1's power truck, versus the power truck of a Fairbanks Morse 'Trainmaster'. The FM Trainmaster has only 2 geared axles per power truck, wheras the GG1 has three. Could this make a difference? Entirely possible. Also there could be old lubricant sitting around in the trucks at play unless it's been very thourroughly cleaned up- different viscosities in oil and grease could have an effect... it seems like it would be hard to get a definitive answer without an all out autopsy! I do have a 2321... I'll happily conduct such an autopsy!...Under the condition I'm donated a suitable 2330, 2340, or 2360 to examine. Entirely for science, of course Naturally I'll have to keep the patient indefinitely for further study
-Ellie
excellent reply! The power trucks are obviously different, so may certainly and likely have different gearing. Your comment about old grease is something i didnt think of at all. And also, the difference in weight of the GG1 would have an effect.
Running on SW and Rw transformers. Perhaps they are unequal to power needed by 2340!GG 1 which ways more and as 6 axles to drive instead of 4.
Are the drive wheels the same diameter? A difference in wheel size will make a difference in speed too.
While the g's wheels are bigger. Which would make a difference, although I would think faster. I am inclined to think along the lines of differences in the motors internally. Mostly the windings and build. Remember. When thos motors were first designed. Dc power wasn't as good as it was by 1969. That difference could be the evolution of the motor design towards dc capable motors. A difference in the number of winds in the windings, the pattern, and direction perhaps.
shane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
NVSRRWhen thos motors were first designed. Dc power wasn't as good as it was by 1969.
Rob
NVSRR- The fault with that theory would be that the 2340 and 2321 were contemporary to eachother (2321 cataloged 1954-1956, 2340 in 1955 only). I also don't think Lionel was ever concerned about 'DC compatibility' with their trains. I would imagine, like solinoids, a universal type motor should show some sort of improvement running on DC (possibly quieter, maybe slightly stronger) versus AC. The difference would be fairly minor though, probably. I mean, they are called "universal" for a reason.The motors could have some differences in performance but I suspect that Lionel had a set of standards for things such as the gauge of magnet wire used, and the resistance each winding should have. Any performance difference between a pair of vintage motors of similar build should be pretty minimal, and over all I don't think any sort of concern was brought by the Lionel Corperation towards increasing motor efficiency as the years went on. It probably went downhill as they started sacrificing quality in the later '50s and into the '60s especially.The bigger wheels would make a difference for sure if the gearing ratio, up until the axles, was the same as the "competition". But then the trade off is more torque is required to spin them, especially to start them. The increased torque required might not be that significant though, I have no idea. I'm just throwing out ideas.
I've realized that the product lumber for the 2340's motor means that my 622 should have the same thing in it. So I may be able to compare motors with my 2321 to see what structural/mechanical differences they might have.
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