Does any one actually build their own layout

[Anonymous]

#65279; CTT has done a fine job of publishing a well balanced array of layout articles. It’s my opinion that all types of layouts, including those professionally constructed as well as those that were scratch build by the hobbyist, should be covered.

I enjoy reading about all types of layouts and since there are no hard and fast rules in this hobby and just about anything goes concerning layout design, construction and building. I want to read about them all: From a simple under the Christmas Tree layout to a Hollywood Personality’s huge layout housed in a separate building.

For a publication to exclude one in favor of the other would be a disservice to its readers.

BillFromWayne
www.modeltrainjournal.com

[sulafool]

Right on Big Boy! I like the idea of limiting the coverage of pro layouts to public displays and not show all those monuments to vanity. OK, once in awhile might be allright, but not every damn issue!

Model Railroader specializes in showing enormous layouts. Tho most of them are HO, they are amazing to behold--the details and scenery and things of that nature. Wonder how it is most of those 30 by 40 foot monsters seem to be built by one guy and his sons, or a club? I don't see MR every month, but I can't recall offhand *any* of them being constructed by professional builders. There's no way a hi rail Ogauge layout is any harder to build; quite the contrary, DC operation requires much more planning and organization due to the inherent wiring problems.

One more observation that summarizes my opinion that modelling is a labor of love: most of the pro-built layouts just look like they were done in a hurry, even though it may have taken a good amount of time due to the size. Dunno exactly how to describe it, but they just seem to lack "soul". Consider the legendary Gorre and Daphetid of John Allen. That is a perfect example of how a model railroad reflects something of the personality and humor of the owner. You can tell he had fun doing it and almost everything was scratchbuilt. Standing around directing flunkies that you want a yard over here and a passing track over there isn't what I'd call applying your imagination. You don't have to be a scale freak to appreciate the distinction, either. If it weren't for imagination, none of us would be into trains at all...would we?

[Big_Boy_4005]

Well guys, this is clearly a divided issue. It reminds me of Washington politics. If you have the money, you can get better access. Is that fair?

There is only a limited amount of space for publishing layouts. If you were the one who built a layout with your own hands and skills and time, then took the time to write about it and submit it, wouldn't you be frustrated if you saw a bunch of articles about high buck purchased layouts.

We know the skill level of the pros!!!! The little guys don't need to keep having their noses rubbed in it.

Keep in mind, I've seen this issue from all sides. I have been paid by others to build train layouts, I have paid others to help me with mine, but mostly I do all of my own thinking and construction.

If someone pays to have a layout built and puts it on public display that is one thing. If they pay to have it for their own private use that is another. One is promoting the hobby the other is not. If the magazines want to publi***he pros, they should limit it to public displays, period!!!

Perhaps there is no such thing as "unattainable". With patience and some effort all of us can accomplish our dreams. Having one's layout published is the highest honor this hobby has. Handing out first palce medals to someone who hasn't even run the race, well...........

[Dave Farquhar]

There's no such thing as the unattainable, given enough time. I like looking at pictures of layouts I can only aspire to, whether it's because every single item on it is worth several hundred dollars minimum, or whether it's because my skills just aren't there yet. It makes me think creatively, and ask myself, "What's the best I can do in a time frame that would satisfy me?"

The great layouts weren't built overnight. Most of them are the result of years of accumulation, whether that's years of accumulation of the materials, structures, etc., or the money to buy them.

Limitations can be a good thing. They're one of the things that keep every layout from looking exactly the same. One of the reasons I enjoy Marx layouts is because even though you almost always see the same dirt-common locomotives and cars, many of the structures apart from the train stations are unique to the layout.

[FJ and G]

There are various levels one can aspire to as Bill S. alluded to.

For instance, those who've built their own layouts--have you also scratchbuilt your own rolling stock, engines and structures.

Wasn't too long ago, when O scalers had to do that or purchase kits for hard-to-find pieces that are now common.

So my only point, is that there are different levels of layout building and to each his own.

Professionally built layouts don't bother me any more (they used to as I mentioned previously, that I had the same thoughts as Elliot and sulafool). The only thing I wish for is that the professional layout builders (as well as do-it-yourselfers) would offer more "how to" techniques and lessons learned in their articles and a bit less fluffy.

[laz 57]

It doesn't matter if you do it alone, build the bench work and wire etc., or if you build it with others. The thing that matters most is if you are having fun doing it and the end product is what YOU like. Run those trains!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
laz57

[dougdagrump]

I've just recently returned to the hobby but I could care less if the layout is "Professionally" built or hobbyist built. Some people are clueless when it comes to contructing benchwork, etc while some are real craftsman and the majority somewhere in between.
This kinda reminds me of the arguement over "SCALE vs NON-SCALE". [banghead][*^_^*][censored][sigh][:)]

[Anonymous]

I am in the process now of building my 13x27 hi-rail layout. I am in year 5 of the project. I enjoy doing it myself and even though my time is thin because of my work schedule i will do it 100% myself. I also enjoy looking at other layouts whether built by the owner or professionaly built, i can always come away with some ideas for my own layout. And when i am done ( are we really ever done) i can get the satisfaction that i built it. Even now when some people came over at xmas they all said the mtns. i was building really looked great, now thats a great feeling.

Dave

[nitroboy]

I built mine, twice!!! And can't wait to start a new one. That's the joy of it for me. If you don't have a mind for the construction, or for that matter, the health (some of you are old!!!) then by all means you should have someone build your layout. No one should be singled out for having someone build their layout.

I agree with BigBoy, it turns newcomers off to see the unattainable. The future of the hobby is not what we can sell to the rich, but what we can use to intice the young and working folks, these are the future big spenders, who in 25 or 30 years gripe about no young blood in the hobby.

[nblum]

I do not see the purpose in restricting what kind of layouts and built by whom can be published. The hobby is very diverse and custom built layouts are a big part of what is going on at the high end of the hobby. This wasn't true in 1955 or 1970. There must be dozens of custom layout builders around, if not more, a half dozen of whom advertise in CTT and OGRR. This is a trend in the hobby, as wealthier individuals become involved and wealth in general, increases in society. Used to be people who used standard transmissions made fun of those who drove an automatic. The foo is now on the other shoet :). Live and let live, and let's publish great small and large layouts, self-built and custom built, whatever, as long as they're exciting and well done.

[Anonymous]

"By the way Bill, I have hand layed my own track before. I just don't want to spend that much time on the mundane parts of the layout. I may still hand lay some of the switches.
Likewise, I am not into building cars and locomotives. I would rather spend my time building scenery and structures, and ultimately running the trains."

You've made my case. Have you ever thought that the entirety of building a layout to someone might be "mundane" and that ultimately running trains is the real purpose to them.

As long as the owner does not take credit for building the layout, I don't see the problem. A great layout is a great layout, and someone (the builder) deserves some credit and exposure for their art for as many masterpieces as they can create. The amount of a layout done by a professional is a matter of degree. You can look down your nose at people who have their layout built entirely by professionals. By the same token I assume you would not get upset if other people who take the noblest route look down their nose at you when you do not lay your own track, or scratchbuild your own trains and buildings, and you have them built by professionals.

[3railguy]

QUOTE: It has been stated many times here that one of the goals of the forum is to attract newcomers to the hobby. The magazine devotes some of it's space to projects for beginners. While it is true that the magazine wants and needs to feature high quality layouts, I feel that showing off professionally built and purchased layouts is a disservice, when there are so many other deserving layouts of high quality done by individuals.

Beginners don't need to see all the things they can't afford. A lot of people are already being turned off by the prices in the 3 rail market, and now they are exposed to visions of the unattainable. No wonder it's so hard to get new people involved.

I totally disagree. CTT magazine is for everyone. Beginners and vetrans alike. There is a lot to be learned from studying photos of a proffesionally built layout. It is a disservice not to publi***hese masterpieces. The bulk of our trains are designed and manufactured by professionals. Should CTT only cover scratchbuilt trains?

Whatever the case, CTT is not the problem. CTT is for everyone. They publish what you want to see and what I want to see. They can't please all of the people all of the time.

[Anonymous]

hello all .
First let me start by telling that I am somewhat new to the hobby. My father in law passed away a couple years ago and we inherited a nice train collection.I built a nice long shelf in my garage to display the trains. As one thing leads to another ,I continued the shelves, hooked up power, installed scenery etc. Fast forward 2+years and my train shelf has grown to a triple track main with many siding and bridges (the big bridge spans the width of the garage at the front so the garage door opens , its a whopping 16.5feet in length) all 6 feet above the floor so I can still park our vintage mustangs in the garage. We now have another level 8 inches above the triple that is a double track , 90% mth premier locos and rolling stock. all realtrax track and dcs. I work on the layout every night after work as well as weekends Its a great way to relax and unwind. The kids in the neighborhood always stop in when the garage is open and they all have a great time . After all my long windedness , the answer is YES I built my whole layout myself over a 2 year period and am very proud of what I have accomplished. The only drawback is when a derailment occurs ,its a long way to the floor!!!! Thanks for listening. stangerdude

[sulafool]

I'm 100% with Little Tommy on this. Every issue does have at least one pro-built layout, each one being more grandiose than the last. I'd rather see a 4 x 8 with painted roads and sawdust grass that someone built himself rather than some filthy rich guy grinning over "his" layout. Sure, I understand some people would rather run than build, just as there are some model airplane enthusiasts that would rather fly prebuilt planes than build a kit, but I think it is a sad indictment in general of what hobbyists have become. In all of these articles the owner has a trite excuse, such as "I don't have time" or "I'm too stupid / lazy" to build my own. Haven't they enough integrity to come out and admit the truth: "I'm fabulously weathy and I can afford to have servants do my work for me"? Do they feel some shame that they must instead be apologetic? Next they probably will hire people to run them--after all they are so apparently technically challenged they can't connect a lockon to a transformer how could they possibly cope with TMCC or DCS?

I may be old (fashioned) but this modern mentality of buy-your-way -to-happiness is largely why young people have the attention span of a cricket and thus prefer the "in your face" action and instant gratification of video games to more traditional hobbies.

CTT is far too willing to promote this nonsense. Instead of encouraging what you can do for yourself they prefer to say "look what you can do if only you had a bajillion dollars, too!". As for you guys that say you get great ideas from the pros, ask yourself where they got *their* ideas--from dedicated amateurs, of course!

[Roger Bielen]

I've built my own layouts. My first was published in OGR. Though it was a thrilling experience I don't think I'd do it again. It isn't just having photos taken and an interview, I had to write my own article that was then edited, though minorly. If you are not a gifted writer the you tend to lean heavily on previous articles and it is obvious. To me the writing is the discouragemanet.

[Anonymous]

Hi Tommy,
Yes some of us still build our own layouts....

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bill Sherwood

Elliott needs to take it to the next level. He should grow trees and then mill his own wood. He should make his own screws. He should also hand lay all of his own track tie by tie and spike by spike, and scratchbuild all of his own engines and rolling stock. Oftentimes people take shortcuts and use elements that are PROFESSIONALLY DONE on the train layout.

Whatever one needs to do to achieve THEIR goal, professionally done or otherwise built is alright by me. I like to see good looking layouts in the magazine.

I have designed and I am building my entire layout. If I can find a shortcut that is acceptable asthetically and affordable to me then I take it.

Bill Sherwood

By the way Bill, I have hand layed my own track before. I just don't want to spend that much time on the mundane parts of the layout. I may still hand lay some of the switches.

Likewise, I am not into building cars and locomotives. I would rather spend my time building scenery and structures, and ultimately running the trains.

There's a big difference between using premade components, and having a layout professionaly built. Everyone is entitled to do his own thing. I just don't think that the professionally built layouts belong in the magazine.

I am basicly agreeing with Little Tommy, who started this topic.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Sorry Neil and Bob, and I mean both Blum and Besougloff as well as Nelson and Keller. Let me see if I can clarify my indignation here.

It has been stated many times here that one of the goals of the forum is to attract newcomers to the hobby. The magazine devotes some of it's space to projects for beginners. While it is true that the magazine wants and needs to feature high quality layouts, I feel that showing off professionally built and purchased layouts is a disservice, when there are so many other deserving layouts of high quality done by individuals.

Beginners don't need to see all the things they can't afford. A lot of people are already being turned off by the prices in the 3 rail market, and now they are exposed to visions of the unattainable. No wonder it's so hard to get new people involved.

Hobbies are supposed to be about achievement in one's spare time. These professional layouts may be fun to look at, and perhaps boost magazine sales, but I still feel that they send the wrong message, especially to the kids!!!!!

Anyone who can afford to have a layout built for them is welcome to it. Hell, they've earned it, but I don't think they have earned the right to have it published. This is just our version of instant gratification.

What Would A.C. Kalmbach say?????

Personally, I would much rather see layouts like Tom's (Spankybird) and a number of other forum members, featured in the magazine.


P.S. Congrats Bob Nelson, your next post is 1000.[8D]

[3railguy]

Cheating? Not really. This hobby is about enjoyment. If a person has a layout built and gets enjoyment out of operating it, that is fine. Is buying a boat verses building it yourself cheating?

[Anonymous]

Elliott needs to take it to the next level. He should grow trees and then mill his own wood. He should make his own screws. He should also hand lay all of his own track tie by tie and spike by spike, and scratchbuild all of his own engines and rolling stock. Oftentimes people take shortcuts and use elements that are PROFESSIONALLY DONE on the train layout.

Whatever one needs to do to achieve THEIR goal, professionally done or otherwise built is alright by me. I like to see good looking layouts in the magazine.

I have designed and I am building my entire layout. If I can find a shortcut that is acceptable asthetically and affordable to me then I take it.

Bill Sherwood

[lionelsoni]

I agree, Neil. If one's hobby is building layouts, one should build layouts. But if one's hobby is running trains, with no interest in building, there is no shame in having someone else do the building.

[nblum]

" They are basicly a form of cheating!!!! All it takes is a lot of money."

I think you're way over the top here Eliot. This is about playing and enjoyment. While one may enjoy a layout more if one built it one's self, that's an individual issue, with some people not having the time, skill or interest in building stuff. Most of these people who commissioned layouts did have some role in the design, I'd guess, and some in the finishing touches, and, by nature of the expense, these aren't people with significant discretionary time in all likelihood. So let's appreciate the play value and skill in all layouts, whoever made them. This isn't a competition or a race, IMO. Certainly someone who invests thousands of hours in building a fantastic layout deserves a lot more personal credit than someone who pays for $200,000 in labor and materials, but to the viewer and the magazine, either is a gorgeous layout.

[Big_Boy_4005]

While the professionally built layouts are very pretty, I think they are a complete violation of the "HOBBY" concept. All it takes is deep pockets, no creativity. That is left to someone elses imagination.

As one who has had a layout featured in CTT, a layout which I did employ help to build, it may sound somewhat hypocritical to say that professionally built layouts should be banned from the magazines. I think there is a clear distinction that can be made here, and that is, professionally built layouts in private homes are not what this hobby is about. They are basicly a form of cheating!!!! All it takes is a lot of money.

In my case, I did the design work, supervised the construction, helped out with some of the actual work, gathered all of the people and materials, and completed the project on deadline. It was a wonderful experience, but I would never do it again.

My current layout is even more grand than the last, and will be my final. This one will not use any paid help to build. It will be all me, with a little help from a few friends. When complete, I expect it to make the pages of CTT, MR and maybe others.

Visitors are always welcome.

[cnw1995]

Interestingly, there's some data about the average age of hobbyists - and I'm including everyone from garden railroaders to Z scalers in this group - being about 55, as compared to 33 in the early 80s - sounds about right - and we've had similar discussions on several forums. Within this group, there is a range - there are many who build everything from scratch - those who prefer to use RTR stuff - and those have someone build it all for them. I don't see anything wrong with this. I can admire and learn from a professionally-build layout as much as from a home-built one. I like learning about electricity and scenicking. I hate to reference Sam Posey's book in two postings - but I just finished it last night - he has some interesting musings about those who like to go their own way or discover their own ways of doing things in the hobby - despite the wealth of people and products that will tell you how to do 'it.' For example, I'm sure there are not a whole lot of people who hung plastic banquet table covers as a backdrop - by stapling cardstrip hangers to the rafters. But it was an interesting exercise for me to enhance (generally) the layout environment within my limits of expertise and resources. I don't intend to convince others my way is the best or only way - and it was fun to share it with others on this forum.

[ChiefEagles]

Jon's layout needs to be in CTT. I have built one layout from scratch and had to dismantle it. Hope to get the other one started soon. I love building bench work and wiring. I am a little slow on scenery. There is were the wife will step in.

[jonadel]

Good Morning,

Now that we are 99.9% done building our layout from scratch it's fun to sit back and reflect "what if". This is our first layout and while it's been great fun there were still some frustrating moments but I wouldn't trade a moment of of the build for anything. I've learned a great deal from this effort and I'm really looking forward to doing one more.

Like others, I have more fun building than operating and I never thought I would feel that way. My biggest frustration though is in design, I spent well over a year trying to figure out what I wanted and I'm still 2nd guessing myself. I might give serious consideration to have someone do the design for the track plan next time. I like what I did but I know it could be more interesting.

I enjoy the professionally built layouts as I like to "borrow" there ideas. They really are the best of the best. I also enjoy looking at rookie builders like me, everyone has something to offer even if it's a basic figure 8 design.

Jon

http://jands.logicalgeek.com

[FJ and G]

Little Tommy,

I used to have the same misgivings and even was irked by what I considered laziness of rich people, gettting others to build their layouts for them; after all what is model railroading when you don't do the modeling?

But I've gotten over it. I now realize that some folks just like running the trains and have very limited time (and possibly skills and energy), so it doesn't bother me any more.

OGR, as well as CTT have run professionally built layouts, with the latest in OGR being Jim Barrett's layout and the latest CTT article, which I'm still reading is, I believe, professionally built.

Having said that, I've seen ordinary people's layouts look just as good or better than what the so-called professionals have done. But overall, when you hire a professional, you'll get a professional layout.

Personally, I derive as much joy in building and learning new things as I do in operations.

[spankybird]

Several of our own forum members have built there own layouts and have been published in CTT.

[3railguy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Dave Farquhar

John, haven't several trackplans you designed been featured in CTT?

Yes, they were inspired by a mix of John Armstrong's book, Model Builder Magazine, Kalmbach's book on display layouts, and scenes from layouts published in CTT.