help with 8041-050 smoke unit

[Anonymous]

I have a lionel 442 engine, (model 8632) that is less than 5 years old. Recently it caught on fire!!!. I am not exactly sure how, but the smoke unit melted until fluid was leaking out of it. Either the stack had shifted during storage and fluid got on the outside of the unit from filling, or it melted somehow. Anyway the fluid got hot and ignited. The whole unit was too roasted to tell exactly what happened, but there was definitely a hole in it.

Anyway, I bought a new smoke unit and it has 1 more wire than the old one. Could anybody tell me how to wire this up. There are 3 wires coming from the unit.
1) The spade connector that goes to the frame rail
2) A long wire...one end goes to the resistor, the other I believ goes to the motor
3) A shorter wire that is solder to the other spade connector on the side of the lamp opposite the one the spade wire is soldered to. This wire is considerbly shorter than the one that goes to the motor, Where does it go?

Thanks

[1688torpedo]

Hello Steelman 93 ! It sounds like your replacement Smoke Generator has the extra wire for the sound of steam connection to the Tender if so, your smoke generator is at least 24 years old or older. As for the other one catching fire I've never heard of that before unless some Flammable solution like track cleaner or rubbing alchohol accidently made its way down the smokestack. The smoke unit you have can be used.Just clip off the extra wire and connect the other two.One to the frame and the other to the wire from the pickup assembly........Keith.

[Anonymous]

thanks for the reply.
I never used track cleaner or alcohol on the engine, it seemed to me that the oil just flashed from heat. It was amazing to see the thing on fire. Unfortunately I had it on the carpet adn my wife saw it too. Boy did I get an earful.

The smoke generator I had was an 8041-050, and that is what I bought. At least that is what is listed on the parts diagram for an 8632 442 engine. The engine came with the New York Central Set, which was purchased from a retail store just a few years ago, so I am pretty sure it is more recent than 24 years. The number ont he back of the generator is 236-54. That number is the same on both units.

Any ideas? The parts diagram only shows the side with the spade connector, not the other side.

[1688torpedo]

Hello Steelman 93 ! The smoke unit you have was desingned around 1963 for the 200 series scout engines with the 2-4-2 wheel arraingment and has been in constant prodution for the past 42 years. In 1971 they were fitted with a copper strip on the piston assembly for the Sound of Steam connection to the Tender.After 1982 the sound of steam was dropped on the basic Atlantic & Columbia Locomotives and the smoke units were changed back to a basic type without the copper strip on the piston assembly like your 8632 originally had before it burned up.It still should not have caught fire like it did though. Maybe you should give Lionel a call and see if they have had other complaints about this type of smoke unit catching fire.........Keith.

[Chris F]

You never know what you'll learn around here! I have a 18627 4-4-2 C&O loco from the first set I bought, and took it apart to look at the smoke unit. Sure enough, the body is marked 236-54 (I think that's the P/N for the smoke unit body, not the assembly). Thanks for the info, Keith![:)]

The 236 loco was first produced in 1961, so I'm thinking that's when the smoke unit made its first appearance. The 8041 loco was first produced in 1971, as Keith indicated.

Lionel has parts lists and exploded view supplements available on www.lionel.com (Customer Service section). Supplement 32 shows the 8041-050 on page 3-5. If you're looking for a picture of the unit with the extra wires, go to Supplements 1-9 and look on page 3-15.

Looking at my smoke unit from the front, the lug to the left and below the lamp has an insulated wire ending in a u-connector held to the pilot wheel frame by a screw, and an un-insulated wire leading into the smoke unit. The lug to the right side of the lamp has an insulated wire leading to a wire nut with a black wire and a gray wire from the motor assembly, and an un-insulated wire going into the smoke unit.

steelman93, I noted you said your loco came with a NYC set - so does the Lionel supplement. However, both the Lionel 1997 catalog and the Greenberg 2005 price guide indicate it came with the Chessie Flyer Freight set (Chesapeake & Ohio on the tender). The NYC Flyer Freight set shows an X110 loco with "Lionel Lines" on the tender. Any idea why the difference?[%-)]

One more thing - what kind of smoke liquid are you using? Some liquids (e.g., Seuthe) are too volatile to be used in Lionel smoke units. I'd hate to hear about another fire with the new smoke unit![:0]

[Anonymous]

Hello ,8632 is that plastic or cast ?

[ADCX Rob]

QUOTE: Originally posted by shamus38

Hello ,8632 is that plastic or cast ?

Die cast.

Rob

[Monsieur]

Hello all,

    I know this is an old thread, but this just happened to us yesterday! We took out a new Pennsy Flyer bought a couple of years ago and stored until yesterday. I checked the engine to make sure it was lubricated  and nothing was binding. We put it on the layout in front of a postwar milk car and five baby madison cars (two with six wheel trucks and all lighted). The engine walked away with the train easily and after about a few minutes it hadn't started smoking. I added more smoke fluid (dumb move). Then noticed the switch under the cab to turn on the smoke unit (read manual before using). Put it back on the track and it started to smoke almost at once. In a few minutes it was puffing away like mad and my wife remarked that it was smoking better then our best smoker. A postwar 2018 (pill unit using mega smoke).  Just after that it started to pour smoke from the steam chest area. It still was billowing smoke a minute after I had turned off the track power.
    We opened all the windows in the living room, where the layout is and turned on the ceiling fans (Hawaii, everyone has lots of them). Then we retreated to the air-conditioned part of the house.
    A couple of hours later I opened up the engine. The bottom of the smoke unit was badly melted and the smoke stack was tilted toward the rear. The whole smoke unit was covered in burnt smoke fluid (carmel colored) and it smelt awful.
    This was an unused engine and only over filled once. When I first stopped the engine after it stopped billowing smoke I felt the front of the boiler and it was warm. None of our other smokers have ever warmed up. This is the only engine we have that uses that style of smoke unit 8041-050. I have a 8141-050, which is basically the same unit, that i bought to add smoke to a different engine. The 8141-050 is the same unit, just used in a plastic boiler shell. After this I'm rethinking the modification.
    Does anyone gave any idea what caused this?

Thanks
Patrick

[SantaFe158]

I've got the 1990's NYC Flyer one and had the same problem. It's just a poor design on Lionel's part. Is it really smart to put a heating element into an all PLASTIC housing? I think not. My dad had to cut the wires to the smoke unit and hard-wired the headlight to the former smoke unit leads. Mine hasn't worked in at least 6 years, but I'm pretty sure it's been longer.

[Monsieur]

Hi

I would have to agree, heating unit in all plastic, not good!

I've ordered a new smoke unit. I'm going to give it a one last try. If this doesn't work I'll just hard wire the headlight and rely on my post war engines to do all the smoking.

Patrick