Prewar Lionel #38 Production Year

[Stevengl]

Hi everyone!

I just picked up a pretty decent prewar Lionel #38 engine. There is almost no information available online about dating prewar Lionel trains, so do any of you gurus out there know what year this model was produced? I'm going to guess the early-mid 20s based on the couplers. I appreciate any help!

[Flintlock76]

According to the book I've got the #38 had a production run from 1913 to 1924.  I don't know if you can nail down your #38 to a particular year, maybe one of the Standard Gauge Lionel super-experts out there might have an idea.  

The best guess I can make is from what I know Lionel's trains had somewhat somber "prototypical" paint schemes on them prior to WW1, post-war the colors on the trains were brighter and more eye-catching.  How your #38's painted may give you a clue.

[pennytrains]

From The Standard Catalog of Lionel Trains 1900-1942 by David Doyle.

"Basically a renumbered late 1911.  The bodies were usually rubber-stamped "NEW - YORK - CENTRAL - LINES", either in block lettering or inside an oval logo."

"The earliest 38s have "Lionel Mfg." nameplates, turned handrail stanchions and vent holes in the end doors.  Mid-production locomotives retained the door vents and "Lionel Mfg." markings, but the handrail stanchions were crimped.  The final production locomotives had stamped Y-shaped handrail stanchions and plates replaced the vents in the doors.  This version of thje locomotive was made with either "Lionel Mfg." or "Lionel Corp." nameplates."

Type 1: Dark olive, rubber stamped "PENN R.R.", red window and body edge trim, small creased hook couplers.

Type 2: NYC, turned stanchions, vent hole doors, black.

Type 3: NYC, turned stanchions, vent hole doors, gray.

Type 4: NYC, turned stanchions, vent hole doors, maroon.

Type 5: NYC, turned stanchions, vent hole doors, dark green.

Type 6: Same as type 1 but with strap headlight.  Dark olive.

Type 7: Similar to type 1 but with strap headlight.  Brown.

Type 8: Factory repaints.  Known legitimate colors: red, mojave, pea green, peacock and red with cream trim.

 Another great resource is Greenberg's Guide to Lionel Trains 1901-1942 by Bruce C. Greenberg.  I have the 1994 edition.  Using this table on couplers can help date a loco.  Quote:

• Short (5/16") and long (1/2") straight hooks (1906-1914)
• Short and long crinkle hooks; the crinkle at the bent end helped keep the coupler from popping out of the coupler slot (1910-1918)
• Hook with ears; two projecting ears appear on the bottom of the bent end (1914-1926)
• Combination Latch (Latch with a slot that would accept the earlier hook coupler) (1923-1928)
• Regular Latch; two types (1925-1942)

That's pretty much everything I have on the subject.