Mike, interesting observation about the idler gears--they do wobble quite a bit on my train, I can see it when I turn the wheels back and forth. How much play are they supposed to have? The axle bearings seem fine, no excessive play.
Ok, so best to wait until I find someone who can replace the wheel right. I've been cleaning up the track I have and I also found a pair of Marx switches. Eventually I will have the track ready to go and then the problem is I'm going to want something to pull my rolling stock! I could look for another motor for the 1666, but it might be fun to buy another locomotive from 1947 or '48, maybe a 221, 2025, or 2020. If I get one from the auction site I might end up with another repair issue, it's hard to see things like gears in those pictures. Anyone have a seller or shop they would recommend?
Glad you found the wheel. Hold off on pressing that existing wheel in for now. I am looking at my early version 2026, which was a Postwar spinoff of the 1666, with smoke. The gear adjacent to the drive wheel in the left on the picture has a stepped gear. Look carefully at which part of the gear is mating with the drive wheel. You may not find the reason for the gear damage until you get it all apart.
Pulling drive wheels, and mounting them requires special tools, and skills. Especially on a steam engine. You are wise to look for someone to do this work.
Set it aside for now, and proceed carefully.
Paul
From my years of experience repairing pre/postwar Lionel, I have seen gears chewed up for a few reasons. First is the diecasting just falling apart from zinc pest, it does happen, even in wheels. They usually just get loose on the axle but sometimes the gear teeth get chewed up. I have see high mileage engines have worn studs that hold the idler gears between the drivers get so worn that it allows that gear to wobble or get cockeyed and chew up the teeth. Worn axle bearings will also allow this to happen on high mileage models. Is there any slop in the axle bearings? If not, remove the offending wheel and fully degrease it and see if it looks like the diecast material is just falling apart. It does happen and if thats the case, just replacing the wheels after fully cleaning up ALL gears of any grease and debris will restore the model to operation again. The final reason I have seen this happen with gears that are very gooey greasey is debris being picked up from the layout and getting ground into the gears destroying them. Usually kitty litter that was commonly used as ballest for the track on layouts with scenery. Good luck with your repair, make sure to get ALL of that old grease off the old gears and bearings. Mike the Aspie
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
Paul, thanks for the advice and for the recommendation for Brasseur. They didn't have the right driver, but I found one on the auction site and placed an order for both the driver and the pilot wheel. My driver looks like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/333560167378
I measured the gauge at one point on the front and rear drivers. the difference between front and rear was 0.043". I might try to push the bad wheel on a little more in a vise as a temporary fix so I can run the locomotive while I wait for the parts to get here (and then wait until I can find a shop or someone with a press to put the new driver on...).
Did Lionel publish nominal measurements for locomotive gauge?
If you need to order the parts, I've had great experience with Brasseur, but you will need to first go online and look at a parts diagram. You will need the exact Lionel part number for reference.
It sounds like nothing is bent, luckily. I'm wondering if someone had taken these wheels off before, and did not press them in enough ? Check the gauge of the front drivers, flange to flange, as compared to the rear drivers. If the gauge is radically different, you may be able to press the driver's inboard on the axle, making sure the gears mesh.
Not the absolute correct way to fix this, but it could save a lot of frustration...
Thanks everyone for the helpful observations and advice! The wheels look parallel to the frame as I turn them so I think it's just perspective that makes them look splayed. The wheel with the chewed-up gear definitely has the most side-to-side play of all three wheel sets. When I took off the connecting rod on the gear side, I noticed it was bent outward slightly where it connected to the bad wheel. Also, one of the wheels on the front truck is chipped. I wonder what happened to this locomotive?
Unfortunately I don't have the tools I would need to get the wheel off or press a new one into place. From searching the forum, it sounds like it's tricky to get the wheel on straight. It looks like there are two versions of the outside wheel, one with a cam for the smoke generator, and one without. I'd like to get the wheel off so I can see what kind it is--maybe I can file the point off a nail and use that to get it off. I may see if there's a local service shop that can put a new one on. The prices look reasonable.
I cleaned the motor and at one point I was able to get it to run without binding. With the original 1042 transformer at the lowest setting, it was going nicely (no load). I'd like to repair it if I can, but a replacement is a good option if I can't find someone to press a new wheel on.
In the meantime, I overhauled the 1466WX tender. The whistle sounds great!
I looked at that photo myself, and I think Bob's on to something. Those drivers do looked splayed out from the frame, like the engine was dropped at one time.
There may very well be a bent axle involved here.
I may be fooled by the perspective in the picture, but it looks to me like the leftmost drivers are not parallel to the motor frame nor the other drivers. Perhaps you have a bent axle.
Bob Nelson
I agree with Paul. Those gears will chew up if the spacing of the drivers on an axle is too wide. The area where your gears are messed up are on the inside edge which would support this theory. Your photo also seems to illustrate the spacing of the middle and rear axles is too wide as compared to the axle on the right of the photo.
It is not too difficult to get these drivers off and they are available regularly on the Bay of E. You are looking for the ones that have the stainless tire. Some versions did not have the stainless tire (there is one on the Bay at this time - cannot tell if it is pre or post war version).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-1666M-6CX-Gear-End-Wheel-with-Axle/293527087838?hash=item445793eade:g:Bv4AAOSwmVxefoqt
Henning's Trains also have some of the 1666 drivers as NOS, but not the geared one unfortunately.
https://hennings-trains.shoplightspeed.com/parts/postwar-loco/?mode=list&min=0&max=60&sort=asc&brand=265308
What types of tools might you have to consider removing/pressing a wheel yourself? Small drill press? Bench Vice? Small punches (i.e. less than the diameter of the axle?)?
This is a very common loco and as Paul further notes, available in whole or in pieces from multiple sources for reasonable prices.
Regards, Roy
Hello and welcome!
The question here is what is causing the gear to chew up, and is it repairable ? Try removing the connecting rods, and try to hand turn it. The way it looks in the picture, the drive wheels on the left side almost appear to be too far outboard, and may not be properly engaging the spur gear, or barely touching the edge of the teeth. If it jumped a tooth, the side rods would cause it to bind up.
So, remove the side rods first, and try it. If this is the problem, you'll need to determine if this is the ONLY problem, or if there is something else going on.
If the repair becomes too involved, another option would be to find another similar engine at a train show to pull the motor from.
Good luck, let us know what you see !
Hello everyone--I've been finding lots of helpful information on this forum so I decided to join in! I have two 1947 Lionel trains and some American Flyer trains from the 50s.
Currently, I'm working on the '47 Lionel 1666, which was my uncle's. Unfortunately, I discovered that one of the drivers has some broken gear teeth. It's bad enough that it causes the gears to jam when I try to run the motor.
How difficult is it to replace a driver, and where would I get parts?
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