TMCC/DCS Survey

[nblum]

An informal survey of TMCC/DCS usage (and conventional usage) was carried out on another forum, but has recently disappeared, probably due to the unhappiness of one of the more influential posters on that forum, and the feeling that these sort of surveys are unscientific and divisive. No doubt both of these are true. But surveys can be informative, and the three rail hobby is divided because of the actions of the manufacturers, and the course of history. No amount of censorship or curtailment of discussion will change those facts, particularly while the manufacturers encourage divisiveness. The early version of this survey can be found at:

http://www.coilcouplers.com/hirail/hirail00.shtml

The final results of 100 posters was that, of those using command control, about 90% used TMCC and 40% DCS. Of these, about 60% used only TMCC, 30% used both TMCC and DCS, and 10% used DCS only. These sort of findings, while not methodologically rigorous, probably give a general idea of what is happening in the hobby. Most are probably still using conventional only, but of the adopters of command control, TMCC is predominate, with almost two-thirds of users using only TMCC, and DCS being added to TMCC by almost a third of command users.

It may be divisive, but it's interesting :).

[ChiefEagles]

Yes Neil, and as you so graciously pointed out on the OGR forum, TMCC has been out a lot longer than DCS. Meaning, it had the jump on the remote control market and DCS now in the catch up mode. I think the thing to watch is the number of operators that are going to both. As an oldie newbie [I left when there was no such thing as remote control and returned winter/spring 04], I looked at both systems very seriously. Even thought that I would remian one of those that operated conventional only. After a lot of SERIOUS studying, I went with DCS. Why? The system allowed me to operate DCS, TMCC and conventional. If I had entered the market a few years earlier, I would have purchased TMCC. I feel I am lucky in now getting the system that operates easily [and it does] and get to run all brands of engines. The thing that would bother me is, any newbie coming on board should not be persuaded by some very un-scientific survey. That it was. I know. I use to do surveys and was trained in developing an studying them.

[nblum]

Chief, I think we agree. I think newbies are influenced to some degree by their dealer and the hobbiests around them. They may be influenced by the probability that more dealers are knowledgeable about TMCC because it's been around for four times as long, and because five of the six manufacturers that produce command locomotives use TMCC.

Surveys aren't going to influence anyone is my guess, scientific or unscientific. They just give us a handle on what's going on.

Anyhow, debate is healthy, no? I would have thought that would be taken for granted, but there are those in the hobby who are more interested in pushing their personal agenda than in finding out what people feel about the trains and what is happening in the industry. That is the most disturbing aspect of the current divisive situation, that silencing opinions seems more important than reasoned discussion.

[ChiefEagles]

I follow your last comments. [;)]

[laz 57]

CHIEF can I hook up and use DCS with the TMCC and run both Lionel and MTH on the same layout? Can I use the same ZW power source with the 4, 180 block power source or do I have to go to MTH? What is the cost to go DCS? I don't know much about MTH engines all I have run were Lionel,Williams and K-line.
Laz57

[laz 57]

CHIEF
SPANKYBIRD had explained this to me before. I just found it in my archives.
Here is his email to me for those that want to know...........

Hi George,

The other day you ask me a question on the Sunday Photo Fun about MTH engines running on TMCC. I am sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.

If you wi***o convert a MTH engine to TMCC, this can be done. If it is a PS1 engine, it is the most cost effective way to have command control. To change a PS2 engine to TMCC can also be done, but I personally feel that DCS is much more advance the TMCC and therefore you would be throwing out a lot of good programming.

Now if you want to know if your TMCC can control a DCS engine, the best it can do is control it in conventional mode, not command. You will have to add to your basic TMCC with Track Power Controller (TPC) for about $100.00. I am not sure but you may need to also add a PowerMaster for another $66.00 Now you should also have a surge protector in case you have a derailment. This is another $50.00

Now that you may be spending over $216.00 more, maybe DCS isn't so bad, for $250.00 it includes all of the above. It can control conventional, DCS command, TMCC command with Lionel Command base added, it has a built in surge protector, and it can also record and play back routines ( which if you add to TMCC is another $62.00.

I guess, bottom line, Command cost about $300.00 no mater which system you choose. The big advantage of DCS it also can run TMCC but TMCC can't run DCS in command.

Hope this answers your question

tom

So I think now that I am again interested it might be my next investment.
Is this tough to learn?
Laz57

[Anonymous]

My first venture into command control a few years ago was with TMCC which came with a Lionel set that I had purchased. It was the only game in town and was pretty neat back then. I then purchased a TPC-400 to run the MTH PS-1 locos with the Cab-1. About two years ago I upgraded to DCS because of the great PS-2 locos that MTH was releasing that had features that IMO blew LLC locos away. My layout which is 22 x 22 has both command systems but I very seldom grab a Cab-1 since the DCS controlers can command all of my CC locos.

Bill T.

[spankybird]

Laz – you can run MTH PS2 and TMCC both in command mode on the same layout at the same time thru DCS and adding the Lionel command base to it. And yes you can use your Lionel ZW as a power supply.

Street cost of DCS is about $250 and Lionel Command base is about $60.00

tom

[Anonymous]

Didn't I see this on the OGR forum? When I looked again it was gone. Typical Melvin censorship.

I'm running conventional right now but plan to change to TMCC in the near future. I understand it is less complex than DCS.

[spankybird]

Bill, there are very strong and different opinion on that. I personally feel that DCS is very simple to hook up and run.

If you get all the extra with TMCC, to be able to run conventional and MTH PS1 and PS2, will have to add several other pieces to the TMCC and spend about the same overall price.

[spankybird]

The entree cost of $100.00 will only allow you to operate your TMCC engines with the Cab 1.

The other cost you may end up spending is:

Power Master (to run convention engines from your Cab 1 = $66.00

TPC (300) (to operate PS2 engines in Conventional mode only) = $94.00

Action recorder (Make recordings of your favorite layout scenarios and play them over
and over again. Record layout scenarios using your trains and
accessories) = $62.00

You should also have a surge protector (Scott’s Odd-n-ends) to protect all your electronics = $50.00 (approx. – depending on which one you buy)

Total cost is now = $372.00

DCS does cost more but has all of the above built into it. = $270.00

IF you add a TMCCcommand base (to also control TMCC engines) = $45.00
Cable to connect TMCC command base = $20.00
Total = $335.00

You will spend the about the same amount. The one advantage with DCS, it will run both MTH and TMCC engines in Command.

The prices are based from:

http://www.hobbystation.net/tmcc.html

[Anonymous]

...and, the reason this informal pole was deleted, was because ????????

[Jim Duda]

QUOTE: So I think now that I am again interested it might be my next investment.
Is this tough to learn?
Laz57

Laz - ask the Chief how hard DCS is to learn. Spank and RAK are the High Priests of DCS over here and they'll take the time to walk you through it, along with a lot of the other guys. The OGR forum has a dedicated DCS section with some very knowledgeable folks, too. What might be a consideration is how big your layout is, and how you have it already wired.

My suggestion is to spend the $20 bucks (or maybe someone will loan you their OGR DCS tape) and watch it. I think the Chief did this and...well, I'll let him tell you his experience.

Finally, this ol' man's opinion is once you go DCS, you will spend most of your time with the DCS handheld in your hand.

And for the record, for the "Survey", here's Duda's input:
DCS 80% usage
Conventional 19%
TMCC 1%

[nblum]

".and, the reason this informal pole was deleted, was because ???????"

Probably the usual reasons. Too controversial, divisive, etc. Someone well connected didn't like the results? :)

[superwarp1]

Yep, that was my Thread on the OGR forum which is gone now. Don't know why and will never know.

I know alot of DCS people on that forum that didn't post, so I think it was skewed a little to TMCC. You guys want to start one over here go right ahead.

Gary

[Anonymous]

...and, umm..... I'll keep "score".......... unless someone else has that prerogative.

[bobblaisdell]

I use only TMCC. I love it. It was basically what got me back into O gauge after over 35 years with HO scale. [:)]
Bob Blaisdell

[Anonymous]

I use Conventional (at the moment, anyway.... waiting to see if anything is announced at York)


TMCC 0 DCS 0 TMCC & DCS 0 Conventional 1

(You can copy and past the above results in your reply... just don't forget to add YOUR preferences, before hitting the "Submit Reply" button.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I've said this many times before, but if someone is counting, TMCC only for me. Everyone else can do what they want.

[Anonymous]

...as I posted above, each poster can "copy & paste" the previous total into his reply, add his preferences to the total.... and hit the "Submit Reply" button.

This would keep the total up-to-date with each posting.

Otherwise, I'll do it.......... unless someone else wants to be the bean counter.

Anyway, so far, the count is.............


TMCC 1 DCS 0 TMCC & DCS 0 Conventional 1

[Anonymous]

...or, maybe this listing is easier for posting.........

TMCC 1

DCS 0

TMCC & DCS 0

Conventional 1

[Anonymous]

New total:

TMCC 2

DCS 0

TMCC & DCS 0

Conventional 1

[Anonymous]

Only TMCC for me!

[Anonymous]

I have both systems wired on my layout, prefer DCS

TMCC 1

DCS 0

TMCC & DCS 1

Conventional 1

[Anonymous]

I'll add ttam's preference for TMCC, since he forgot to add it.

New total:

TMCC 3

DCS 0

TMCC & DCS 1

Conventional 1

[mcattardo]

I'm wondering why you can't run a ps2 in conventional with a powermaster?

[ChiefEagles]

Alan, we need to teach you how to count. You missed Jim Duda, Spankybird and me. I run DCS adn conventional. This week, I will be adding the TMCC module to be able to run all three.

Laz, I bought DCS and stored it for a couple of weeks as I was a little anxious about installing it on the temp layout on the floor. I heard so much about wiring and operation. I saw the OGR tape and it was great. Finally one day, out of boredum, I hooked it up to the temp layout with poor wiring. Fired up my engines and away they went. Track signal of 10 on all three loops and all sidings. The operation of the remote is so easy. I was really ashamed of myself for not doing it sooner. Think that is why I have been slow on get the TMCC module [heard some rumors]. Got a great deal on a TMCC diesel and so I am going to add the module as soon as Dr. says you can drive [better be this week]. Ignore all the rumors and BS and go for it. Half of what you hear from both groups is BS. Got outstranding support on this forum and OGR too. Hit a bump, post it or call someone [I called Tom a couple of times to make sure things were right]. [:D][:D]

[laz 57]

CHIEF, SPANKYBIRD and JIMBO, I think you guys have sold me on this DCS. I think I will invest in this as long as you say I can run all the Lionel Locos off this. Thanks again for all the info, this forum makes life easier for people to get different opinions on things and I think yous guys are stearing mr right. I will inquire about this at the train shop next Monday. What is a good price to pat for this?
Laz 57

[Anonymous]

...sorry about the count. But, I began counting after my post. I thought previous posters would add their preferences after mine.

In any case, here are the current standings (I think). If not, you can copy and paste the totals into your "new" message... after "adding" your preferences.

TMCC 3
bobblaisdell
Big_Boy_4005
ttam


DCS 3
Spankeybird
Jim Duda
ChiefEagles

TMCC & DCS 1
Bill T.

Conventional 3
Alan_H
Bill Conner
ChiefEagles

[Buckeye Riveter]

TMCC 4
bobblaisdell
Big_Boy_4005
ttam
Buckeye


DCS 3
Spankeybird
Jim Duda
ChiefEagles

TMCC & DCS 1
Bill T.

Conventional 4
Alan_H
Bill Conner
ChiefEagles
Buckeye