Whistle button causes train to cycle direction, not blow whistle

[Anonymous]

Since I last used my Lionel 2037 and MTH Daylight last fall, the whistles won't blow. Instead, the e-units cycle to the next direction (forward to neutral for example). They worked fine in the fall. What happened?

[ChiefEagles]

Did you by any chance reverse the common [-] and + wires to your track or transformer? New type of transformer? No rust or dirt on track?

[lionelsoni]

Since it happens to two locomotives, I would suspect the transformer. What kind do you have?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ChiefEagles

Did you by any chance reverse the common [-] and + wires to your track or transformer? New type of transformer? No rust or dirt on track?

It is my same Lionel type 1053 tansformer that has worked perfectly for the 3 years I have had it. I don't remember disconnecting the lockon wires but I may have, but I am careful to put them back the same way. Would it do any harm if I tried switching them at the lockon?
The track is new Gargraves and it ran perfectly in the fall. I am having trouble with my UCS track. It will uncouple but won't unload. When it took the controller apart, it appears that the Unload top an bottom bars are touching. Could that cause a problem?

Thanks for the prompt reply.

[ben10ben]

In postwar transformers, it's entirely possible that there is some sort of problem in the switch assembly or rectifier that would cause the power to go off rather than creating a DC offset.

With your UCS track, what sort of cars are you trying to use with it? Certain operating cars use a plunger assembly to activate them that will only work when the "uncouple" button is depressed.

[lionelsoni]

Here is the service information about your transformer:
http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/transfmr/ps1053a.pdf

If there is no output from the transformer when the whistle button is down, I would suspect a broken connection between the whistle switch and the 5-volt winding. If there is an interruption as the button is pressed, but then some voltage to the train while the button is held, it could be an open rectifier or a faulty switch.

With that two-terminal transformer and a postwar locomotive, it doesn't matter which way the wires are connected to the track, since the whistle relay is insensitive to polarity. For a more modern locomotive, the polarity may determine whether the whistle blows or the bell rings. However, you cannot harm anything by swapping the wires.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ben10ben

In postwar transformers, it's entirely possible that there is some sort of problem in the switch assembly or rectifier that would cause the power to go off rather than creating a DC offset.

With your UCS track, what sort of cars are you trying to use with it? Certain operating cars use a plunger assembly to activate them that will only work when the "uncouple" button is depressed.

If I took the top off the transformer would I see the problem?

I am using the UCS track to pop the "rack"? that holds 5 logs for my Lionel Sawmill. It does work with the "uncouple" button but not the "unload". I guess I will just use the "uncouple" button from now on.
thanks.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lionelsoni

Here is the service information about your transformer:
http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/transfmr/ps1053a.pdf

If there is no output from the transformer when the whistle button is down, I would suspect a broken connection between the whistle switch and the 5-volt winding. If there is an interruption as the button is pressed, but then some voltage to the train while the button is held, it could be an open rectifier or a faulty switch.

With that two-terminal transformer and a postwar locomotive, it doesn't matter which way the wires are connected to the track, since the whistle relay is insensitive to polarity. For a more modern locomotive, the polarity may determine whether the whistle blows or the bell rings. However, you cannot harm anything by swapping the wires.

There seems to be good power going to the track when the button is pushed because if it was in neutral when I pu***he whislte button, the train takes off as long as the buttonis depressed. Would/could I see the problem if I took off the top of the transformer or is this one of those invisible electrical situations?

Thanks for your reply.

[ChiefEagles]

My guess is the rectifier is bad.

[lionelsoni]

Frank is probably right. As I said, with that behavior it's likely either the switch or the rectifier. The fact that the problem appeared suddenly points to the rectifier. That is a copper-oxide device, which can be replaced by a modern silicon rectifier. You can get a 6-ampere one in a plastic case at Radio Shack, which will probably be big enough for that transformer.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lionelsoni

Frank is probably right. As I said, with that behavior it's likely either the switch or the rectifier. The fact that the problem appeared suddenly points to the rectifier. That is a copper-oxide device, which can be replaced by a modern silicon rectifier. You can get a 6-ampere one in a plastic case at Radio Shack, which will probably be big enough for that transformer.

Thanks again for all your help. I don't know anything about the rectifier. Will I be able to locate it because it will look similar to the one at Radio Shack? Can I just unsolder the old one and resolder the new one in it's place?

Sorry for the detailed questions but I don't have any experience in specialized components like a rectifier.

I really appreciate your time.

Thanks again.

[Anonymous]

Griss, (and all..!)

i received some excellent advice on the forum regarding basically same
question, except my horn equipped Williams wouldn't honk, but all my postwar stuff (2037 and 2023 loco's) blew fine. it was advised to do the same.
replace the rectifier, in my case my transormer is a Lionel LW.
all i did was consult Greenbergs for the layout of wiring, (as was
provided to you for your transformer via Olsens excellent site)
follow wire from button, unsolder at that connection, (provided your
wire is in good shape) solder that wire to end of your new 6 amp rectifier diode.
consult your schematic, for description of color of wire that will
be coming off of the other side of your original rectifier, unsolder.
then solder that end of wire to other end of new diode, tape your exposed connections and place it neatly in the frame, and Your'e done !
i did not even remove my old one.
Radio Shack will give you what you need.. 6 amp rectifier diodes, i got a pack
of 4, for like $2.00 + change..
O.K. now MY problem... the Williams is blowin' Great,
but my POST WAR stuff now is sporadic,-e-units & horns !!!!!!!!!!!! crazy,,
was originally concerned with polarity of the new diode, tested it before soldering, with the Williams loco, however,..... NOT the post war stuff.!!!!!
Will changing polarity do it guys?
Griss, hope my description was beneficial, and not confusing.
There is a HUGE amount of help from GOOD people here.

don't go off the rails like a "CRAZY TRAIN !!!"....- [Ozzy Osbourne]

driver8
on the BNSF mainline

[Frank53]

I had a similar, but different problem. My 2344 NY Central Diesel horn is activated well by the Whistle button. However, a 681 Loco with matching whistle tender doesn't whistle, but speeds up - significantly. Likewise a 2026 speeds up.

Voodoo? WItchcraft? Old age?

[lionelsoni]

The copper-oxide rectifier is the big copper-colored disc labeled "RECTIFIER" in the Olsen's picture. The silicon rectifier is a much smaller plastic cylinder with a wire coming out of each end. When you look at the schematic diagram, the symbol for the rectifier is an arrowhead point to the right butted against a perpendicular line. The silicon rectifier has a stripe printed around it at one end. That end (the "cathode") corresponds to the right side of the schematic symbol. (The other end is called the "anode", if anyone cares.)

Getting the polarity wrong will interchange whistle and bell in modern locomotives that are sensitive to polarity; but postwar locomotives with relays shouldn't care. However, I suppose that there is an outside chance that the relay has gotten magnetized by operation with one polarity for a long time, making it more sensitive to that polarity. You wouldn't have to open the transformer to test this hypothesis--just swap the wires to the track.

It is normal for locomotives to speed up, since the whistle control boosts the track voltage to compensate for the additional load of the whistle motor and the losses in the rectifier. It usually overcompensates.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by driver8

Griss, (and all..!)

i received some excellent advice on the forum regarding basically same
question, except my horn equipped Williams wouldn't honk, but all my postwar stuff (2037 and 2023 loco's) blew fine. it was advised to do the same.
replace the rectifier, in my case my transormer is a Lionel LW.
all i did was consult Greenbergs for the layout of wiring, (as was
provided to you for your transformer via Olsens excellent site)
follow wire from button, unsolder at that connection, (provided your
wire is in good shape) solder that wire to end of your new 6 amp rectifier diode.
consult your schematic, for description of color of wire that will
be coming off of the other side of your original rectifier, unsolder.
then solder that end of wire to other end of new diode, tape your exposed connections and place it neatly in the frame, and Your'e done !
i did not even remove my old one.
Radio Shack will give you what you need.. 6 amp rectifier diodes, i got a pack
of 4, for like $2.00 + change..
O.K. now MY problem... the Williams is blowin' Great,
but my POST WAR stuff now is sporadic,-e-units & horns !!!!!!!!!!!! crazy,,
was originally concerned with polarity of the new diode, tested it before soldering, with the Williams loco, however,..... NOT the post war stuff.!!!!!
Will changing polarity do it guys?
Griss, hope my description was beneficial, and not confusing.
There is a HUGE amount of help from GOOD people here.

don't go off the rails like a "CRAZY TRAIN !!!"....- [Ozzy Osbourne]

driver8
on the BNSF mainline

Yes. Excellent and clear instructions. I'm going downstairs to take it apart now.

[daan]

When an e-unit drops, it means that the power falls off if you pu***he button. It could be a bad joint which opens when pushing the button, or a shortage in the rectifier, when you pu***he button the power is shorted.
If you have problems with older horns activated via a wistle or horn relais you probably don't have enough power coming out of the rectifier to operate the relais. I had that when using rectifiers for switchrelais in my rheostat. The rectifiers heated up quickly and the relais didn't activate..

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by driver8

Griss, (and all..!)

i received some excellent advice on the forum regarding basically same
question, except my horn equipped Williams wouldn't honk, but all my postwar stuff (2037 and 2023 loco's) blew fine. it was advised to do the same.
replace the rectifier, in my case my transormer is a Lionel LW.
all i did was consult Greenbergs for the layout of wiring, (as was
provided to you for your transformer via Olsens excellent site)
follow wire from button, unsolder at that connection, (provided your
wire is in good shape) solder that wire to end of your new 6 amp rectifier diode.
consult your schematic, for description of color of wire that will
be coming off of the other side of your original rectifier, unsolder.
then solder that end of wire to other end of new diode, tape your exposed connections and place it neatly in the frame, and Your'e done !
i did not even remove my old one.
Radio Shack will give you what you need.. 6 amp rectifier diodes, i got a pack
of 4, for like $2.00 + change..
O.K. now MY problem... the Williams is blowin' Great,
but my POST WAR stuff now is sporadic,-e-units & horns !!!!!!!!!!!! crazy,,
was originally concerned with polarity of the new diode, tested it before soldering, with the Williams loco, however,..... NOT the post war stuff.!!!!!
Will changing polarity do it guys?
Griss, hope my description was beneficial, and not confusing.
There is a HUGE amount of help from GOOD people here.

don't go off the rails like a "CRAZY TRAIN !!!"....- [Ozzy Osbourne]

driver8
on the BNSF mainline

[Anonymous]

Hello again.

It's about 3 weeks since the last communication amd I want to post an update. As suggested, I bought the 6 amp rectifier at Radio Shack and installed it according to the instructions I received from "driver8" and the whistle began to work bu only about 50% and the MTH Daylight just made a click like it was going to work but it didn't.

I contacted my Lionel train hobby shop and he suggested relpacing the original rectifier with a Lionel one. I got it last week and installed it and lo and behold the whistle worked as good or better than ever. The Daylight also now whistles perfectly.

As I said, I don't know much about higher electronics but maybe the Radio Shack option might have worked with a different rectifier. The Lionel part was only $9.00 so it was a worthwhile investment. I guess it goes to show that you can't go wrong with original replacement parts.

Thanks to all for the help.