LionChief Plus issue???

[KRM]

Anybody else have a LionChief Plus that the when you get it to about 3/4 throttle it just takes off like a rocket? It never did this at first but will now. Goes so fast you are lucky to get it to stop without flying off the table?  It is My BNSF GP20 # 2050. I have to try it in conventional mode to see how it works. Wondering if it is the remote or the main board?

Update: I just ran it in conventional and once I get close to the 18 volt mark it does the same thing. Takes off like a rocket? I also noticed in conventional it seems to surge and act as if it wants to speed up and slow down rather than keep an even speed ? So it seems it is something with the engine not the remote.

Any ideas or has anyone else seen this?

[sir james I]

I dont have an answer just a couple of could be's. The antenna in the engine. The speed reader, your overhead tracks might be interfering with the signal. However this does not explain it's behavior in conventional mode.

 

[dougdagrump]

Kevin, How does it perform using the remote if you reduce power from the transformer to the track. We do this with the Kid's Club LionChiefs when they tend to not run at a respectable speed. Normally we use the lionel bricks for power but for the LionChief we use the MTH Z4000 so we can adjust the voltage DOWNWARD when needed. 

[KRM]

Doug I was going to try that. Right now it is running off a ZW that I took a reading on for 18 volts and marked the handle so I knew where to set it. Running conventional it blast off before I get to that mark so I was thinking the same thing to back it below the blast off point and try it. But I still would like to know what is causing it to do that. My new Tier 4 LionChief without the plus runs just fine set to the 18 volt mark? Only other thing I can think it may effect is the smoke unit output set lower.

 

 

[dougdagrump]

Does this one have BlueTooth ? If so how about trying to set max speed with the app thru a tablet or smartphone.

[KRM]

dougdagrump

Does this one have BlueTooth ? If so how about trying to set max speed with the app thru a tablet or smartphone.

 

 No Doug it is from 2016 before the blue tooth. I am going to have to mess with it some more tonight.

http://www.lionel.com/products/bnsf-lionchieftm-plus-gp20-diesel-2050-6-82171

 

[KRM]

Doug,

Well I tried a bunch of stuff,,,with the voltage set at 12 it works and won’t fly off the rails, but the smoke unit does not produce for crap. Anything above 12 volts and it runs away over ¾ throttle. Anything under 10 volts and the PCB won’t work at all and shuts down. Even at 12 it will do a hurk jurk at times. So, I decided it needs a new PCB board and guess what # 691ENGM213,, the board is Unavailable from Lionel with “NO” replacement number. WTF???? Why I hate new Lionel trains!!!!! So I guess I am screwed… Live and learn......

Got to love it.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/ReplacementParts/index.cfm?doAction=productPartFilter&number=6-82171&productID=fac9fa19-3835-4d86-8fdc-29f4f223a326

I am going to bed,,,

[rtraincollector]

Kevin call Lionel and ask to talk to a service tech and see if he/she can recommend a board that will work.

Or you could go through ERR and make it TMCC just a thought. 

[anjdevil2]

I have 3 and have not had any issues like that, in any mode.  Like RT says, I'd call Lionel first.

[KRM]

RT, I been waiting two hours for return call from Lionel, My call will returned in the order recived.   

Rich, you got to run them to break them! Even with all of the running I have put on this I still bet it has less than 10 hours total.

Update: three hours later they call. No motor and no replacement! Tech is out for holidays. CS person sent an e-mail to see if there is anykind of work around. She also has my e-mail because I am in their system and said she will let me know what she knows when she knows something.   I hope!

We shall see.

[dougdagrump]

Kevin, You might try Mike R. at Trainworx. He was the head of Lionel service when they actually knew what service/repair meant. It went right down the poop shoot when he left. He probably would'nt have repair parts but might have some suggestions for a repair possibility or maybe even a work around.

Good luck. It seems like all of them tend to be the same, anything over a couple years old needing electronic repair parts you are S.O.L.

[KRM]

Thanks Doug, I will wait to see if anything happens first, then maybe give him a call. Not that I don't have enough to run, but like I told the woman at Lionel,,"Sad to have an engine that list for $400.00 that you can't get parts for". I wonder if any other industry could get away with that?

 

[KRM]

Well I tore into the 2050 GP20 today and found nothing loose or disconnected. But while on the bench the whole issue changed gears. It went from running fine at anything below ¾ throttle to a whole new set of symptoms.

Now it will not go slow at any setting just rocket mode and only that for about 10 seconds and then it stops. Same in either direction. So, I am stumped at this point as to what to do next. I even un-plugged the motor with the reader and it still runs wide open and then shuts down on the other motor? I am thinking it has to be the main PCB causing this?????   

[Flintlock76]

Just for experimentations sake KRM, try unplugging connectors to anything that doesn't involve the motors or motor control, that is, lights, smoke unit, whatever, if you haven't tried that already.  See if that has any effect.  That's what I used to do with cranky copiers, disconnecting sections to isolate the problem.

I had an MTH Y6b I bought used, ran well for a while, then it began popping the circuit breaker on the transformer.  I pulled the connectors on the boards one by one until the breaker-popping stopped, then followed the wires.  One of them was pinched to the frame, it took a while before the problem manifested itself. 

Good luck!

[KRM]

I did that Flintlock and nothing,  I think I got a lead to follow from Gunrunner John over there. Going to give it a try. Can't get a PCB anyhow, so why not?

More here.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/lionchief-plus-takes-off

 

[Flintlock76]

Gunrunner John seems to know his stuff!  Good suggestions!

And people wonder why I stick to conventional...

Thirty years of fixing copiers and I've had it with over-engineered gee-whiz electronics.  As far as I'm concerned the simpler the better.   

[KRM]

Well I am going to try replacing the motor and sensor assembly, Can't get the PCB anyway.

Motor should be here Tuesday. Will report back when I can get time to see if that is the problem.

[BigAl 956]

This would happen to me with my older TMCC engines. They would lose signal and default to manual control full speed. I found the ground connector on my electrical outlet, the system was plugged into, was open. I replaced the outlet and never had the problem again.

[KRM]

Well I got to it today, Swapped out the motor/sensor assembly and it is FIXED. So now we know! 

Big Al, Thanks, I had already checked for wire issues and could find nothing so I kind of thought it had to be the sensor pick-up that is on the motor.