how do i slow down a k line engine

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how do i slow down a k line engine
Posted by Bulletboy on Monday, January 28, 2019 7:33 AM

how do i slow down a k line engine. i was told there is a fix for this.Any help, part numbers ect. is greatly appreiciated.

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Posted by Michael6268 on Monday, January 28, 2019 11:49 AM

Paired diodes in parallel will reduce voltage.  Multiple pairs in series may be needed to lower it to the level you desire.

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Posted by 8ntruck on Monday, January 28, 2019 11:58 AM

I think each pair of diodes will drop the voltge about 1 volt.

I've used this method to reduce voltage on a down hill portion of a layout to keep the speed of a conventional (transformer) controlled train in check.  Works well.  Prior to installing the dioeds, I had to 'drive' the train, varying the throttle control on the transformer to maintain a steady speed.  Now I can set the throttle and let it run.  Now, when I display this layout at train shows, I can talk with people and not have to worry about driving the train off of the table at the bottom of the hill.

Good luck.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Monday, January 28, 2019 12:33 PM

The pairs of diodes should be wired in anti-parallel, that is, with the cathode of each diode connected to the anode of the other.

The exact voltage drop per anti-parallel pair depends somewhat on the transformer voltage and how many pairs you have in series, but it's going to be around 1/2 to 2/3 volt.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by KRM on Monday, January 28, 2019 1:29 PM

Would help to know what K-Line Engine you are working with. But if it has two can motors then, I had the same issue with two K-Line ALCO S2 switchers and a MP-15. You can wire them in series.  I have also had to do that to some Williams by Bachmann engines. Works just fine to slow them down. I had a picture showing how to do it but can't find it right now. Maybe someone else has it too.

 

From another forum, I can't find it here but know it is out there someplace. 

On the K-line

Follow the brown wire down from the reverse unit... it should be connected to a yellow wire and a blue wire on the terminal block. If it is, disconnect two blue wires from the terminal block and connect them to each other(or, disconnect two yellow wires and connect them to each other if that's easier).

Here is a link on it.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/wiring-locomotive-motors-in-series

 

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Monday, January 28, 2019 7:46 PM

Rob

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Monday, January 28, 2019 7:47 PM

A DPDT switch can be installed, too, if you want the capability of switching between series/parallel:

DPDT Series Parallel

Rob

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Posted by KRM on Monday, January 28, 2019 8:07 PM

ADCX Rob

 

 

Thank you Rob, That is it. I thought it was from you but could not recall.

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by lionelsoni on Tuesday, January 29, 2019 11:44 AM

The diode solution can be implemented in the locomotive or between the track and the transformer.  This may be a consideration if you don't want to modify the locomotive for whatever reason.  Otherwise, if the locomotive has two motors wired in parallel, then rewiring them in series is the best solution.  But the explanations posted for how to do this seem to make two different assumptions about the locomotive's wiring:

The thread from the other forum, linked to by Kev, assumes that the motors are originally wired in anti-parallel, that is, that the yellow wire from each one connects to the blue wire from the other.  This is likely if the trucks are identical assemblies, facing opposite from each other, to cause one to run in reverse while the other runs forward.  This arrangement can be converted from parallel to series by disconnecting two wires of the same color (either yellow or blue) from their original locations and connecting those wires together.

The other assumption, made by Rob, is that the two blue wires  connect to each other and the two yellow wires connect to each other.  His drawing suggests rewiring the motors by removing one yellow and one blue wire and connecting the motor terminals with another wire, although the equivalent rewiring can be done in a variety of ways.  Specifically, if the motors connect to the reversing unit at a terminal block, two wires of different colors (blue or yellow) can be freed and connected together.

A problem with this is that there are four possible blue-yellow pairs.  The correct pair to disconnect and reconnect together is a pair that do not connect to the same motor.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by brianel027 on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 8:05 AM

I've been running the starter set types of locomotives for almost 30 years, including the K-Line S-2, Alco FA, etc.

There is another solution that has not been mentioned thus far.

Most postwar period transformers start off with a minimal 6-7 volts to the track, which will make these engines operate with jack-rabbit starts. The Lionel 1033 transformer has a dual setting for voltage to the track. The B-U posts put 0-11 volts to the track and is absolutely perfect for running these sorts of locomotives. If I'm running a loco that needs more power, I can switch to the A-U posts of 5-16 volts.

A modern production transformer may have a lower starting voltage to the track than most postwar types, but you won't get the "ceiling" voltage of 11 volts to the track like you do with the 1033 transformer using the B-U posts.

One more point of interest: The RMT locos that have their origins with the K-Line tooling (the BANG S-4, and the BUDDY RDC Budd Car) share many parts with the prior K-Line versions. BUT the motors in the RMT versions are a different spec and are way more suited to use with a typical postwar war transformer... they need more voltage to get going. If I run my RMT locos with the B-U settings, they hardly will pull a train. For those, I switch to the A-U setting.

Of course, if you do not want to buy another transformer, you may want to do some rewiring as discussed above. Though rewiring the motors to series versus parallel wiring will reduce the pulling power of your engines.

brianel, Agent 027

"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."

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Posted by lionelsoni on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 10:38 AM

Rewiring in series divides the transformer voltage between the motors, which has virtually the same effect as running them in parallel at half the voltage, and they can be expected to pull just as well as they would have if left in parallel and run at that lower voltage.

So series operation at 16 volts is no worse than parallel operation at 8 volts as far as tractive effort is concerned, and in fact, with a small transformer like the 1033, the halved current may be expected to lead to a slightly higher transformer output voltage range by reducing the load on the transformer.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by BlueComet400 on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 9:05 AM

Changing the wiring from parallel to series works very well and is an easy fix. I just did this a week or so ago on both of my K-Line/O-Line GG1s. 

 

John

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Posted by KRM on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 12:17 PM

Bulletboy

how do i slow down a k line engine. i was told there is a fix for this.Any help, part numbers ect. is greatly appreiciated.

 

This seems to be another thread where the OP asks a question gets a lot of help from the others and then disappears?  Sad. Tongue Tied

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM

Yes, it's always annoyed me a bit when a poster with a question on this or any other Kalmbach Forum I look into doesn't respond with at least a "Thank you" when the question's been answered.

I can't say I lose any sleep over it though, it is what it is.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, March 11, 2019 2:45 PM

I've gotten two Williams GP9's recently that were prone to jackrabbit starts and running WAY too fast, I tried KRM's suggestion of wiring the motors in series and voila'!  Problem solved!  Much smoother running now and the passenger cars tied to their tails light up better as well.  Easy job too!

Thanks KRM for the idea and ACDX for the diagram!

By the way, I'm (was) a big fan of the Williams product line, the locomotives were built like tanks and just as rugged.  I still can't figure out why Bachmann gutted the product line the way they did.

KRM
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Posted by KRM on Tuesday, March 12, 2019 7:21 PM

Any time Wayne,

 I love my Williams engines as well. They still have plenty of speed for me in the series wiring. I have done it on all of my Williams but my A-B-A Santa Fe Super Chief  2333 F3 Black Bonnett set.

Works the same on those K-line engines to. 

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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