"Up-armoring" your brass locomotives

[FJ and G]

Nothing, I repeat, absolutely nothing beats a brass locomotive, according to brass collectors.

Some, however, say that one of the downsides (besides cost) is fragility. In other words, they don't dive to the slab as safely as, say a sturdy postwar, sans details.

I've got a question and a solution, at least to the fragility portion (I've always been told never to ask a question without thinking of solutions)

Why not simply make brass locomotives out of a thicker-gauge sheet of brass? Surely, a thicker brass shell won't add substantially to the cost of, say a $1,200 engine.

I'm guessing that the replies to my suggestion will be that thicker brass is harder to work. Maybe so, but aren't there benders and cutters capable of forming the desired shapes?

Brass in and of itself, although a "soft" metal, is still much sturdier than copper. Given the correct thickness, I believe that a locomotive can be suitably armored to take the plunge to the slab.

[wrmcclellan]

Dave,

I think the broader issue is repairability and availability of parts. Brass locos are usually VERY limited production compared to die-cast (typ 10:1). Thus availability of repair components from the distributor is slim to none.

Note that Lionel on their high end units are not stocking many of the components. A buddy of mine broke the valve gear carrier off the front engine frame of his Lionel special release Santa Fe 2-8-8-2. Initially Lionel said, sorry - we do not carry any body or shell parts for this loco. They eventually dug one up, but he got lucky.

BTW - the unit did not get dropped - the side rod assembly came loose while running and it hit the table and the force broke off the hanger assembly.

Regards,
Roy

[spankybird]

Are not Brass engines cast similar to die-cast metal engines [?]

[wrmcclellan]

Tom,

Typically no. There are some older kits out there that did use brass castings (and there may still be). The engines like the ones I have from Weaver and Williams (back when Williams offered brass scale models) use a rolled sheet or tubing for the boiler. Same is true for the HO I used to have.

A casting requires a mold or die - thus one has to run several thousand units to recover costs. Use of sheet and tubing means one can do a run of a couple of hundred economically (I use that term loosely). Note 3rd Rails ads where there are typically about 50 - 100 locos available of each version.

Regards,
Roy

[FJ and G]

Tom,

I think that 3rd Rail put these together by hand.

[spankybird]

Thanks Guys.

I never really look at them, as being out of my price range. I will have to check into how they are made in more detail.

tom

[FJ and G]

Tom,

I know exactly what you mean reg. price. But one can always dream.

[spankybird]

Dave, that's why my layout is O27. It limits me to what size and cost engines to buy.

If I can't run it, I don't buy it.

tom

[Anonymous]

Sheet brass is used for the major components of brass locos, with lost wax castings making up the detail parts. Scott Mann at the last major train show on the east coast tossed one of his steam locomotives high into the air and caught it on several occasions just to show how rugged the engines were. Not even a bent part.

One brass engine fell off a club layout during a Christmas show onto a hard floor surface. The cab was bent from the impact. The cab was straightened out and touched up with paint. A die cast engine would have had the cab roof broken off.

Third Rail, Weaver, Overland, Key, and Precision Scale all use rather high tinsel strength brass in their models. I don't think the myth of being fragile holdsif the engines just get a reasonable amount of care. Parts that do get broken off from use can be re-soldered back on. I have several engines from KTM in Japan that were built in the 60's and still look as good as the day they were new. I don't think I have ever seen a brass locomotive with a dented boiler or tender, although it could certainly happen if one was dropped hard or really abused. Reasonable care will yield a long lasting locomotive.

The last die-cast brass or bronze engine came out in the late 40's. There is no real advantage of using brass in a cast boiler over other metals. The cast engines were crude at best, but of course most of them were made 60 or so years ago.

Precision and Overland maintains a rather complete stock of detail parts and replacement parts for their locomotives. I've never had anything go wrong that I was not able to get fixed or replaced. From reading the numbers of each model that comes in from Third Rail when they begin to ask for reservations it appears like total numbers in the 300-400-500 is common for each model. Thats broken down between 2 and 3 rail, and different cab numbers.