Lionelsoni, thanks for pointing out a mistake I made. You are absolutely correct about the actual Lionel switch track not fitting due to the way the base extends. To solve this problem, I added three parallel 3" straight track sections. This extends the area needed for the switch track base, and it also results in maximizing the overall size to 48" x 36".
I modified the representation of each switch track to show the room each O27 base actually uses. That should make it easier to understand what lionelsoni was referring to and why the 3" additional tracks were necessary.
I did a quick check, and I found out Lionel's O27 straights are 8 7/8" in length. Therefore, one section can be cut into thirds to a length of 2 9/32". It may be possible that would offer just enough clearance for the switch track base. If so, only one additional straight track would be needed. Otherwise, the three short sections would need to be cut from two full-length 8 7/8" straights. I'd measure the distance needed for the switch track base first, before cutting a straight track.
The second of those last 4 won't work with Lionel turnouts. The first (curved) diverging path will overlap the second (curved) diverging path's switch machine. The second diverging path does clear the third curve, because there's no switch machine for the third.
Bob Nelson
Earl - It's the building, tutiledge, and sharing your interest with the grandson that is important, not the trackplan. Keep it simple. Add a siding. Make it adaptable for going under the Christmas tree.
Show him the proper way to use a saw, a jigsaw, a mitre saw, a drill, a sander; all things he's probably not been privy to, and you will be the one whom he remembers first introducing them. Basic wiring, track, lights, a turnout, will bring him satisfaction upon turning on. Basic scenery, painting, plaster, foam carving, brings his creative juices out.
And you will have been his guide, Grandpa.
Here are three other variations that'll fit in your space:
The first one probably gives you the most versatility, because it allows the longest train to be run on it. It can also accomodate up to 4 operating tracks with plenty of room for each.
The other three limit the length of the train by approximately 2 car lengths less, and they only allow up to two operating tracks to be used.
The second one has up to 4 different routes for a train to take. It would allow a person with quick reflexes to switch from route to route to keep the train from repeating the same route through each revolution.
It's not too hard to expand Phrankenstign's 45x36-inch layout until it just fits. Add 3 inches in the long direction and 6 inches in the short direction, in 3 places in each direction. Since an O27 straight is just under 9 inches, you could cut 3 full straights into 1/3-2/3 to get the short pieces.
I wish you could see what I suggested above, since it provides two loops and a double crossover, to run two trains simultaneously.
Hi Earl,
I am interested in your topic and what you are learning to solve your dilemma of such limited space. Please contact me at Classic Toy Trains to discuss.
Thanks,
Roger Carp
Senior editor
262-796-8776 ext. 253
EIS2 Well I now have the measurements and they are 42” x 48”. That is too small for any kind of a layout and I told his father that 42” x 48” is too small for an ‘O’-gauge layout. Now I have to backtrack on my promise, which will surely disappoint my grandson. Any ideas on how to help this budding railroader? Earl
Well I now have the measurements and they are 42” x 48”. That is too small for any kind of a layout and I told his father that 42” x 48” is too small for an ‘O’-gauge layout. Now I have to backtrack on my promise, which will surely disappoint my grandson.
Any ideas on how to help this budding railroader?
Earl
I looked through a bunch of Lionel Railroader Club The Inside Track issues, and I found this O27 layout submitted by Peder Jothen in issue 34:
His track plan measures approximately 54" x 36". It's a bit too big for the space you have to work with.
I took his original plan and shortened it simply by removing three straights:
I estimate the size of this adapted layout to be approximately 45" x 36". This WILL fit in the space you have. The transformer can be placed at the bottom.
If six straights are removed from Peder's plan, the the layout would take about 36" x 36" worth of space. This would leave space for a transformer on the right as well as the bottom.
Both of my shortened versions would, of course, also allow an operating track to be substituted for any or all of the straight tracks.
Kids (and many adults....ahem) love to operate accessories and track switches. These layouts give the operator a lot of things to do in a very small space. The cost is quite a bit lower using O27 track and switches compared to using Fastrack.
What do you think of these possibilities?
BTW HO scale trains are a lot more challenging to work with.....especially for an 8-year-old. I built an HO layout as a teenager, but I never had as much fun as I did with "O" gauge trains. The accessories and operating cars are so much easier to set up and use in "O" gauge. They are so much sturdier and less apt to derail when handled a bit roughly---something younger children tend to do..
Very ingenious Paul, one picture is certainly worth a thousand words!
And Becky's right about view blocks. I use the concept myself on my 4 x 8, a three foot tunnel in the back with building fronts on it for the trains on the two outside loops to disappear into, and a third inboard trolley loop that runs behind the layout buildings so the trolley disappears as well. When all three loops are in operation the viewer also can't focus on any one train for long so the illusion works well. The layout does seem bigger than it actually is.
Loop can fit completely inside. That's how cool O-27 is !
To illustrate how versatile 0-27 is, this table top is 48 x 48 inches. The outer tracks are HO, for On30 trains. An O-27
I just did a more careful calculation on my two-loop suggestion above, and it turns out that it also needs 1 more inch in the shorter dimension. So its 43x49, not 42x48. Maybe you could get a waiver for an extra inch in each dimension.
I drew the layout with the program that I use for my own stuff and made a .JPG file of it. Unfortunately, I don't have a way to post it, but I can send it by e-mail to anyone who is interested in it, or knows how and is willing to post it. All the track lengths that are not standard O27 sections are dimensioned. I put in two stub sidings as an example.
I think you actually Do have space for something simple, we're talking O-27, and O-31 sizes.
Perhaps something like an inner loop, passing over a 30 degree crossing to an outer loop, then back through the crossing to an inner loop ?
Maybe try this : mark off the 42by 48 space on the floor, and test fit some track sections in that space. Then you will see what is possible. If you hit on the best track plan for the space, jot it down on a sheet of paper.
Paul
How about a disapearing train. Have it go down about 6 - 7 inches, inside a tunnel the loop underneath and come back up to finish the loop.
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
View blocks. At those dimensions making the train dissappear from sight is going to be your friend. A hill with a tunnel, buildings straddling the track and maybe a highway overpass all work well to make a small layout look larger than it is.
I also agree with the idea of using the smallest radius curve possible to maximize "the run". Maybe add an "S" curve on the front to add visual interest to the route. It also would be a good spot to add a spur or a very short siding.
Get him involved in the process from the start and let him make it his own as much as possible. That's the recipe for success.
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Lionel Fastrack isn't that tough to assemble, as a matter of fact it's my experience that it actually gets easier as the mating points break in.
MTH RealTrax? Yeah, that's a bear to assemble but oddly enough it's easy to take apart, just lift one section and it separates easily.
How about this? Since you live in the desert how about an outdoor layout? Rain and humidity shouldn't be that much of a problem. Certainly the locomotive and cars would have to be brought inside after playtime's over, but that shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Or how about this, a 3 x 6 foot rollaway layout that can fit under his bed? Pull it out for use, push it back when done.
How about two nested loops, one O27 and one O34, with a double crossover in one corner? The O34 curvature is a little gentler than O31, so he can comfortably run anything limited to O31 on the outer loop. I use this very compact crossover on my layout. Here it is:
Number the O27 turnouts as 1 through 4. Odd-numbered turnouts are right-hand and even-numbered are left-hand. The (facing-point) end of each turnout is F, the straight end is S, and the curved end is C.Join 2F to 3F to make a 90-degree O27 curve through their curved paths. Join 1C to 2S. Join 4C to 3F. Then join one curved O34 track section to 1S and another to 4S. Put a 5/8-inch straight section between the O34 sections to complete a near-O34 90-degree curve. The tracks into this crossover are spaced exactly 6.25 inches on centers, which would be appropriate for all four sides of the layout.
You could add a short stub siding or two into the infield if you can get another half-inch on the longer dimension, enough to put an O27 turnout on the long side(s) of the inner loop.
I wanted to build a layout for my grandson (8 yrs old). Before telling him, I asked his parents if it would be OK. They said yes. I asked his parents to give me the maximum dimensions that I could use for the layout and they agreed to provide them after doing some measurements.
I then told my grandson that he and I would be building a layout for him, and, of course, he was very excited. That was back in August, when it was very hot (we live in the desert). I told him we would build the layout in October, when it was cooler. He has been patiently waiting for October, which is now here.
Well I know have the measurements and they are 42” x 48”. That is too small for any kind of a layout and I told his father that 42” x 48” is too small for an ‘O’-gauge layout. Now I have to backtrack on my promise, which will surely disappoint my grandson.
I thought of just putting the track on the floor and letting him take it back up when he is through. It is not an ideal solution, but it is doable. The problem is that the modern track (MTH RealTrax or Lionel FasTrack) is very hard for a little person to connect the track sections.
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