new large layout ??'s

[wrmcclellan]

Bob,

You are right. My mistake. It has been 3 years since I did that. Edited to correct.

Thanks,
Roy

[lionelsoni]

Roy, don't you mean 14 and 12? 14 AWG is the smallest building wire that is legal in the US.

This type of cable will be marked something like, for example, "NM-B 14-2 AWG WG". "NM-B" is the type of non-metallic sheathed cable. The first number is the gauge; the second is the number of insulated conductors. "AWG" means "American wire gauge". "WG" means "with ground", that is, that there is an additional uninsulated conductor inside the sheath.

See
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=-1&TOPIC_ID=21801&REPLY_ID=205924#205924
and
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21028
for much more on wiring.

[wrmcclellan]

Crosdaddy,

How large is large?

Edited to correct layout size - add photos, etc.

An issue will be wire sizing to minimize voltage drops. I did all the basic wiring for our club layout (20 x 30). I used house wiring (12 and 14 ga) as it is the cheapest thing per foot and minimizes voltage drops.

We run TMCC and DCS.

You can buy either 3 wire (black - white - and bare ground) or 4 wire (I used this - black - white - red - bare ground). On the 4 wire cable - I used black and red for one track and white and bare for the other. Since we have 4 main lines - this meant running two cables to each district.

I split the layout into 6 power districts. I used star wiring configuration (considered optimum for DCS - TMCC does not care). The 6 districts each have a distribution panel in the center of the district. I used Square D ground bars (from home depot - cheap - 7 position for $3.50) which give you an excellent screw binding to secure 14 - 18 ga wire reliably - better than terminal strips which work loose.

I ran 16 - 18 gauge flexible feeder wire from the distribution panels to the track spaced about every 6 - 10 feet. I used 18 or 20 ga solid copper wire as a jumper from the rails (soldered) to below the tabletop to attach to the 18 ga feeders from the distribution panel. I used wire nuts to attach the jumpers to the feeders (soldering upside down is for the birds). Use of wire nuts has been very reliable (not one failure in 3 years - if they work for your house for 50 years they must be good enough for toy trains!).

You will need to solder all your rail joints (you can do it now or do it later - but it will be unavoidable).

Another issue to consider is cost. TMCC runs a very large layout for one price on the Command Base. DCS requires that a TIU (not cheap) be added for each power district. One TIU handles 4 power districts. Both TMCC and DCS require a transformer for each power district. The DCS TIU is limited to about 10 amps per power district.

Center section - 2 power districts - yard and city section



Left mountain section - 2 power districts - corner and end



Right industry section - 2 power districts - corner and end



I also wi***o thank Rick B who did all the final wiring; track to feeders, accesories, lighting, etc.

Regards,
Roy

[tomtaras]

i used both tmcc and dcs system but the dcs system in my opinion is the only way to go-more display options and this system can operate both lionel and mth engines on the same system and same track

[Big_Boy_4005]

It's more about isolating where you may have a short, and how much current can reach the track. All of this depends on how many engines you plan to have running at the same time.

A typical modern dual motor engine can draw 2 to 3 amps, post war retrofits will draw more like 4 to 5 amps. Add a set of passenger cars, and the lights will draw another couple of amps. This is why "power districts" are a must on a large layout.

Voltage isn't really the problem, current is what needs to be controlled. What kind of power supplies are you going to be using?

I will be using a number of 20 amp transformers to power my layout. These units have no voltage control on them as they were not designed for toy trains, they put out a straight 18.9 volts AC. The key is I don't want or need all 20 amps on any single section of track.

An old friend of mine turned me onto a gizmo called a Poly-Fuse. It is an electronic circuit breaker. You can get them from DigiKey. They are very inexpensive, and come in a full range of current ratings. I plan to use the 6 amp variety. In a quantity of 100, the cost is $60. Not bad when you consider that the Lionel powerhouse lockon is $39.95 per unit.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the answers so far guys.
Ok, I'm a futz when it comes to electrical stuff. So, as it relates to wiring in blocks;
1) you can isolate were you may have a short( didn't think of that)
2) for power distribution, as in makeing sure all track areas have the full 18 volts available?
thanks for your help,
crodaddy

[Big_Boy_4005]

Welcome to the forum, and congrats on your first post. It sounds a little like you are trying to do what I am doing. I'm going exclusively with TMCC because of it's computer interface, and ease of installation. One thing you may need to reconsider is the use of blocks, not for control purposes, but for power distribution.

[lionelsoni]

Even if you connect them all together, having track in sections that you can separate electrically to isolate short circuits is a good idea and doesn't need to involve any significant extra wiring, just a jumper around each insulating track pin.

[Anonymous]

I've only worked with Lionel TMCC, so I couldn't honestly say one is better than the other. I've had no problems with it, though, and I put it in on my dad's layout when the system was pretty new. At the time, I had it wired for two seperate loops (large 2 track main... 5 bedroom house, the layout fills the entire basement) At the time, there was nothing to getting it wired in, I had a yard that was wired seperately, but since then my dad has everything on one power feed now except for a small (relatively) inner loop he has added just for conventional operation. He's even wired in the passenger station sidings off the same power feed.

[Anonymous]

Hello to all, I've lurked here for awhile and enjoyed the informative posts.
I am putting together a large layout, (all benchwork is built, track layout is roughed out and going to someone for cad drawing) and I have a question regarding command control.
Which would be the better route for a new layout, and let me stress; there will NOT be any conventional motive power, so that is not an issue as it concerns DCS or TMCC. I currently own 4 Lionel TMCC units. I'm not paticularly partial to either Lionel or MTH. My main concern at this point (after the design is complete and track layed) is, in order of importance 1) least amount of bugs, glitches etc.
2) least troublesome to wire ( this is a large layout)
3) ease of use
Also, since no conventional motive power will be on track, I can't see any need for wiring "blocks" or seperate "loops". Am I missing something in thinking that way?
Thank you in advance for any comments or sugestions you may have for me.
Regards,
crosdaddy