Lionel #7 (or 6 Special)

[Darth Santa Fe]

I've always thought Lionel's #7 (or I guess #6 Special?) was a great looking steam engine.  I've seriously considered getting the MTH reproduction model before, but going back and forth between photos, I got a little confused.  MTH's model is all brass except for a few trim parts, but on all the photos I've found of originals as well as the more expensive repro from JLM, only the boiler is brass while the rest is nickel.  Also, MTH paints a red stripe on the walkways, while the others appear to be bare metal, and the red on the pilot and wheels looks a lot brighter than the others.

Was there ever a Lionel model like MTH's reproduction?  I remember MTH also releasing a #6 at the same time with a sky blue boiler that barely even looked like the real Russia iron I've seen before, so I'm wondering if they just decided to get creative on the #7 instead of being fully authentic.

[Firelock76]

Hold on while I go get one of my Lionel books, don't go away!

Thumpity-thumpity-thumpity-thump!

Thump, thumpity-thumpity-thumpity!

OK, I'm back.  This is from "The Collector's Guide to Prewar Lionel Trains, 1900-1942"  by David Doyle, printed in 2007.

The Number 6 was produced from 1906 to 1923, and was built with a "Russia Iron" boiler, "silver" boiler bands, red cowcatcher and window trim, and some red trim on the tender with "silver" trucks.

The first Number 7 was produced from 1910 to 1912 with a brass boiler and nickle cab, cylinders, and trim.  The tender is brass with nickle trucks.

The second 7 dates from 1912 to 1923.  Brass boiler and cylinders, nickle trim, but the cab and tender appear from the photograph to be a "gun-metal" grey.

I haven't seen the MTH repro, so I can't say if it's 100% authentic or not.  I'd assume like most builders of reproductions MTH may have taken some "liberties" with the replica to keep it from being passed off as an original by the unscrupulous.  It's happened before, it'll happen again to the unwary.

Sad but true.  Hope this helps.  Full disclosure, I'm no expert on pre-war standard gauge trains, far from it.  All I know is what the books tell me.

[Penny Trains]

Greenberg's Guide To Lionel Trains 1901-1942 Volume 1 Standard and 2 7/8" Gauge 1994 printing says of the 6 Specials:

• 1908-09; earl;y 6 locomotive and tender constructed from heavy sheet brass and nickeled brass; brass engine boiler, nickel-finished cab; red pilot, driver spokes, pilot wheels, and tender stripes; no lettering on locomotive or tender sides (although shown lettered in catalog).  Nickeled tender has either open or closed three-rivet trucks.  Note: A 6 Special is indistinguishable from an early 7 since there is no lettering or known mechanical difference.
• 7: 1910-23, 4-4-0; early models same as 6 Special with/without binding post inside cab.  Pilot wheels were cast iron until 1920, then die-cast.
• (A) 1910-12; brass boiler, nickel-finished cab, thin-rimmed wheels, red-painted spokes and pilot wheels, large nickel bell; nickel-finished tender with single red bead line, two open three-rivet trucks and red solid wheels.
• (B) 1912-23; brass boiler, nickel-finished cab, thick-rimmed red-painted spokes and pilot wheels, small nickel bell.  Brass tender with unpainted wheels, no red bead line.
• (C) Same as (B), but engine (excluding light, bell, stack, and dome) completely brass; cab window out-lined in red.  Tender has nickel sides, double red bead trim, two open and spring-embossed trucks with red-painted solid wheels.
• (D) Brass boiler, nickel-finished cab, thick-rimmed red-painted spokes, pilot wheels, pilot.  Brass tender has nickel-plated outside, red interior, wheels, trim line along bottom edge; straight-hook couplers.

That's the skinny on Lionel's prewar #6 Specials and #7's.  The MTH models of recent years with the russian blkue boilers more closely match the standard production #6.

[Darth Santa Fe]

Wow, thanks for all the info!  I guess the MTH model isn't a perfect match to any of the original productions. Here's a photo of theirs: https://cdn1.legacystation.com/media/extendware/ewimageopt/media/inline/24/c/lionel-standard-gauge-11-1018-1-lionel-lines-no-7-steam-engine-with-proto-sound-20-40a.jpg

And here's an exact reproduction from JLM: http://www.jlmtrains.com/Graphics/standardgraphics/7.jpg

They do both look great though!

[Penny Trains]

The MTH version is the one Lionel comissioned them to produce back in the 80's (?) for the Lionel Classics line.

[Darth Santa Fe]

Looks like MTH and JLM have both discontinued the 7 for now.  I guess I'll just have to keep an eye out to find one.  There's a set on eBay right now, but I already have passenger cars (which also match my #42 nicely), so I had to force myself to pass on that one.  Oh well!

[Penny Trains]

I know that song!