The end to Electric Railroads upgrades for a while anyway if not for good

2078 views
26 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    April, 2005
  • From: South Carolina
  • 9,344 posts
The end to Electric Railroads upgrades for a while anyway if not for good
Posted by rtraincollector on Wednesday, April 25, 2018 4:14 PM

Please read this as it seems this forum had no knowledge of it.

http://www.lionel.com/articles/ELECTRIC-RAILROAD  

 

 

 

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/

KRM
  • Member since
    January, 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
  • 5,361 posts
Posted by KRM on Wednesday, April 25, 2018 6:46 PM

WOW!!! 

 So glad I never got into that in the first place. Almost did but backed out as new stuff was coming out. How long will they support the new stuff? Money has a very short site.  I will just run mine with the transformer. Sorry Suckers! Smile, Wink & Grin

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

  • Member since
    April, 2005
  • From: South Carolina
  • 9,344 posts
Posted by rtraincollector on Wednesday, April 25, 2018 7:01 PM

How can you respond to ignorance.

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/

KRM
  • Member since
    January, 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
  • 5,361 posts
Posted by KRM on Wednesday, April 25, 2018 7:53 PM

Ignorance? You got a point there, I think?  As far as I can see they don't support any of the old transformer stuff either. Now it is Blue tooth and run your trains on your phone and tablet. What next? From what I see the kids are just not into it these days. Kinda like 8 tracks. Laugh

Lionel is just like all the rest of todays places.  Ignorance is in the eye of the beholder. 

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

  • Member since
    April, 2007
  • From: MICH
  • 7,843 posts
Posted by sir james I on Wednesday, April 25, 2018 8:00 PM

It's not just Lionel MTH sets no longer come with any type of controller, you have to add something. The problem is elecronic parts change and getting what is need for the boards becomes obsolete.

"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks 

  Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - TCA  - Detroit3railers-  Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS

  • Member since
    April, 2013
  • 195 posts
Posted by Michael6268 on Wednesday, April 25, 2018 8:04 PM

IMO.  It's just like what the did with K-line.  Eliminate it. Thus removing a product competing with their overpriced low quality line they're pushing.  I really don't think that Lionel would still be around today, or if it was, be a big factor in the industry if K-line never sold out.  

  • Member since
    April, 2007
  • From: MICH
  • 7,843 posts
Posted by sir james I on Wednesday, April 25, 2018 8:13 PM

M. Kline put himself out of business by making poor bussiness decisions. Lionel still outsells all the others by miles. They will be around awhile in spite of their poor customer relations decisions.

"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks 

  Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - TCA  - Detroit3railers-  Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS

  • Member since
    April, 2005
  • From: South Carolina
  • 9,344 posts
Posted by rtraincollector on Wednesday, April 25, 2018 8:32 PM

K-Line didn't sell out they got caught using a copy right product of Lionel. Lionel basically put them out of business. 

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/

  • Member since
    April, 2005
  • From: South Carolina
  • 9,344 posts
Posted by rtraincollector on Wednesday, April 25, 2018 8:40 PM

Lionel and MTH both have been having big problems with quality control and seems they can't get a handle on it. Which they really need to do so. To some of us older ones, the way they and MTH are heading it is putting us where we don't want their products. If you don't stay up on all the new technology your getting left behind in a hobby you help develop to where it is today kinda. 

I never was big into technology but I did have some engines that where TMCC. Some I did the ERR upgrade. Which was a great product for it's time but it has gotten to where it is old technology so Lionel has decided to let it go. A lot where upset by it as it ment they couldn't upgrade and engines that where conventional. But supposedly Lionel is working with someone who wants to keep it going but with different parts to do the same. We will see. To me it's time Lionel let a form of Legacy be released so there is a better product to upgrade conventional. 

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/

KRM
  • Member since
    January, 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
  • 5,361 posts
Posted by KRM on Wednesday, April 25, 2018 8:58 PM

sir james I

M. Kline put himself out of business by making poor bussiness decisions. Lionel still outsells all the others by miles. They will be around awhile in spite of their poor customer relations decisions.

 

Yep,

And if Edsel had bought out everyone else we would all be driving one. Wink

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

  • Member since
    April, 2013
  • 195 posts
Posted by Michael6268 on Wednesday, April 25, 2018 9:10 PM

rtraincollector

K-Line didn't sell out they got caught using a copy right product of Lionel. Lionel basically put them out of business. 

 

 

I wasn't aware of that.  I know Lionel was sued by MTH for copywrite/stealing thier plans and had to pay up big!

  • Member since
    April, 2005
  • From: South Carolina
  • 9,344 posts
Posted by rtraincollector on Thursday, April 26, 2018 4:54 AM

If I remember correctly it was a steam engine of some type. A big one. 

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/

  • Member since
    July, 2003
  • From: Wisconsin
  • 2,740 posts
Posted by Bob Keller on Thursday, April 26, 2018 7:04 AM

The court threw out the judgement against Lionel in the Lionel-MTH dispute. Here are some of the stories we ran on the MTH-Lionel and Lionel-K-Line litigation:

Train drawings stolen, MTH sues Lionel N&N July 2000 p23

Judges denied injunction against Lionel, News & Notes Sep 2000 p23
MTH Awarded $40 million in Lionel trial, News & Notes Sep 2004 p22
Judge approve $40.7 million award to MTH, News & Notes Feb 2005, p22
Lionel seeks bankruptcy protection Feb 2005 p23
Lionel accuses K-Line of stealing trade secrets, News & Notes Oct 2005 p23
K-Line seeks bankruptcy protection following Lionel lawsuit, News & Notes, Nov 2005 p23
K-Line/Lionel settlement (Second Statement), Product News Feb 2006 p24
Lionel will take over –Line brand, Product News, May 2006 p23
MTH files, then drops patent infringement lawsuit against Lionel Oct 2006, p21
Appeals court sends back MTH-Lionel lawsuit, March 2007 p25

Bob Keller

  • Member since
    April, 2013
  • 195 posts
Posted by Michael6268 on Thursday, April 26, 2018 8:14 AM

I heard, not sure if it's true though that Lionel had to hand over its tin plate line to MTH as part of a settlement? Any truth to that?

  • Member since
    April, 2005
  • From: South Carolina
  • 9,344 posts
Posted by rtraincollector on Thursday, April 26, 2018 9:23 AM

From what I heard Lionel Licensed it to MTH. It was shortly after the deal so there was some speculation on that but nothing never came of it other than speculation. 

Thanks Bob for the info.

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/

  • Member since
    September, 2004
  • From: Middle o' Nowhere, MO
  • 1,014 posts
Posted by palallin on Thursday, April 26, 2018 9:49 AM

KRM
Now it is Blue tooth and run your trains on your phone and tablet.

Who is "you"?  It isn't me.  I don't have Bluetooth or a SmartPhone or a Tablet.

I got roped into TMCC becasue of wanting an engine I couldn't get any other way.  I now have three and one Legacy, and I regret every minute of it.

When the CC stuff fails, i intend to rip out the guts and install a bridge rectifier and run on the transformers again.  I don't care if I lose the Gee-Whiz gadgetry:  the trains will actualy run reliably.  Heck, the sounds, lights, and smoke cut out and malfunction now, so I don't have them much anyway.

Or I may gut them entirely and run straight DC.  The lights, at least, won't care.

In any case, I am pretty much done with Lionel, and, to be fair, it looks like are done with me becasue I am not techy enough for them.  They won't miss my small change, but I won't miss their devolution into poor customer service--I still haven't gotten a reply to a parts request made months ago--unreliable trains, and dismissive attitude, either.

 

KRM
  • Member since
    January, 2011
  • From: North Bluff above Marseilles IL
  • 5,361 posts
Posted by KRM on Thursday, April 26, 2018 10:16 AM

 

“You” seems to be the market segment that Lionel is looking at as their future as far as I can tell.

 

 I also do not have a tablet, smart phone, Bluetooth or a smart TV but I know there a lot of them out there who do. Fine with me.  I will just keep running my conventional trains and use my flip phone. I have enough trains anyway. I must admit I have got some Lionchief for the grandson and they seem fine. Guys my age are not the market Lionel is looking to for their future and good thing they are not.

 

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

  • Member since
    February, 2008
  • 264 posts
Posted by robmcc on Thursday, April 26, 2018 3:20 PM

Maybe there wasn't a big market for upgrades, but there still is enough of us who like the fact there was an option to upgrade or replace TMCC/RailSounds components. I understand the TMCC technology is almost 25 years old, which is an eternity in the electronic world, but I still feel it has a relevant place in our hobby. From what I've read elsewhere, there was other factors such as parts sourcing and aging staff that contributed partially to the decision. I do hope Lionel is looking at alternative options. I really don't want to get into wiring blocks and relays on my layout!!

  • Member since
    August, 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,621 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, April 26, 2018 7:50 PM

I'll tell you folks, I don't like hi-tech and I don't like gee-whiz electronics.

I've always taken this great man's words to heart...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2NsTi_43g4

And that's why I run conventional.  Nothing like just sitting there with a cup of coffee and a smoke and watching 'em go round and round. letting the visual dynamics of my steamers do their magic. 

I'm easily amused, I might add.

And RIP, Lieutenant James Doohan, 14th Field Artillery Regiment, Canadian Army, who stormed Juno Beach on D-Day, June 6th, 1944.  Not just a fictional hero.

Scotty, you are missed!

  • Member since
    August, 2003
  • 197 posts
Posted by alank on Saturday, April 28, 2018 3:50 PM

It will probably spur a cottage industry....

  • Member since
    August, 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,621 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, April 28, 2018 4:31 PM

alank

It will probably spur a cottage industry....

 

Which is what CTT columnist Lou Palumbo has suggested, i.e. "drop-in" electronics for quick and easy repairs when the original equiment fails, maybe without all the sophisticated stuff but just enough to get it going again with basic features. 

Although some have said Dallee Electronics is doing just that right now.  I don't know, I haven't checked.

Oh, and "Lionchief?"  No thank you, I want that conventional operation "fall-back" option, which is why I DID buy a "Lionchief-Plus" locomotive.  I tried the remote operation once just to see how it worked.  It worked just fine, but that was the end of the experiment.  Transformer control is all I want or need.

Oh, "Which one?"  you ask?  The Lionel Susquehanna GP20.  Great runner and lots of fun to use!  I WAS going to go for the MTH Susquehanna SD60, but at 18" long it's just too big for the layout.  My 17" Trainmaster just barely squeezes through the turns and tunnel without hitting anything.

  • Member since
    April, 2005
  • From: South Carolina
  • 9,344 posts
Posted by rtraincollector on Saturday, April 28, 2018 7:16 PM

I have about 5 or 6 engines with TMCC in it. I enjoy it but I still love my post war and prewar. I'm just as happy running either. 

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/

  • Member since
    September, 2010
  • 15 posts
Posted by bobhwalker on Saturday, April 28, 2018 7:36 PM

The simple facts are that there currently exists an enormous variety of ways to run model trains of all gauges. Running via conventional transformer power is just as valid a mode as the most advanced bluetooth. This doesn't make the newer advanced systems a threat, but merely offers us more choices that did not even exist a few years ago. New advances tend to spice up a hobby, so we should just take it all in and enjoy what we like.

  • Member since
    September, 2015
  • 1 posts
Posted by JG1950 on Sunday, May 13, 2018 11:57 AM

I tried the new technology when it first came out MTH and TMCC I wasn't that impressed then and now I am re-entering the hobby after a 10-year absence and I am only going to mess around with post-war Lionel K line Etc I find the old stuff the most reliable when I got my first MTH command control engine they bragged it was the equivalent of a 283 computer which was already a dinosaur. Even the cheapest of my old engines can fly off the train board on to the cement floor with hardly a scratch and just keeps on running I really don't need the headaches with the new stuff it is fun to look at so I'll just watch videos when I want to see that stuff. Besides  that equipment is too expensive for me

  • Member since
    January, 2009
  • 1,714 posts
Posted by 8ntruck on Monday, May 14, 2018 6:43 PM

Bummer.  One of the projects on my 'get to it after I retire' list was upgrading my MKT NW2 with one of the TMCC kits.  Guess I'll just sit tight and see what develops.

On the subject of conventional vs TMCC, Legacy, Lionchief, etc., I'v found that I've been running my conventional equipment more lately.  I think this is because I do not currently have an operating layout at home, and most of my running has been on temperory layouts.  I've found that it is easier to run the conventional equipment as it is truly 'plug & play'.  Hook the wires up, and it goes.  My Legacy system generally needs a little troubleshooting before it operates smoothly on one of the temperorary layouts.

 

  • Member since
    February, 2008
  • 264 posts
Posted by robmcc on Monday, May 21, 2018 10:47 AM

Well it looks like Lionel and Scott from 3rd Rail have come to an agreement for 3rd Rail to take over ERR. Great news!!

  • Member since
    October, 2006
  • From: Silver City, NM USA
  • 1,370 posts
Posted by Deputy on Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:44 AM

I am getting back into the hobby and am also more interested in the postwar stuff after buying a good deal of TMCC and MTH remote control gear. Price and this abandoning of support are the main reasons for leaving the modern gear.

Virginian Railroad

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

FREE EMAIL NEWSLETTER

Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month