O scale train operational problems

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  • Member since
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O scale train operational problems
Posted by Locojunkie on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 11:22 AM

Good Afternoon Everyone,

I recently aquired 2 O Scale locomotives. A Lionel Norfolk Southern C40-8 and A Weaver Pennsylvania 4-8-2 M1a.  I am having problems with the operation of both. When I put the Lionel on the track, The locomotive flew so fast that it jumped off the rails. I have a MRC Throttlepack 1301 transformer. The Lionel locomotive can not be controlled by decreasing the throttle or increasing the throttle and only has one speed which is very fast. When I put the Weaver locomotive on the track, the bell rings twice and the lights come on but the locomotive refuses to move whatsoever. I does not even move with a little hand coaxing either. I am thinking that the problem is in the transformer for both locomotives but I can not be sure. Please advise me on what to do about this. This transformer seems to work extremely well with all my other locomotives including my Post War Lionels and my newer MTH NYC 4-6-4 and my MTH C&O 4-8-4 J3a and my Lionel N&W Class J 4-8-4. Thanks.

 

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Posted by EIS2 on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 4:10 PM

If your other engines work OK with the transformer, it is probably OK, But I would check the voltage output with your run-away loco on the track just to be sure.  Especially check the minimum transformer output voltage with the handle just off the low end stop.

Did you buy both of your new problem locos from the same source?  If so, that might mean some odd modification was made to both locos.

Regardless, he laws of physics and electricity still apply and I don't see how a loco can fly off the track at around 5 or 6 volts input voltage.

Earl

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Posted by wrmcclellan on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:01 PM

HI LocoJ,

Without more details on the locos (age, part numbers, which control system, one has to make a few guesses...

1. if the Lionel loco has Oddessy control system, the symptom indicates the speed sensor is not working. The speed sensor is typically a magnet flywheel on the can motors with a Hall Effect sensor ( senses rotation as the magnetic field changes on each spin of the magnet). With the Oddessye control set to ON (most locos with O have an ON/OFF switch - except for early O production). So if the sensor is bad (or the support bracket is broken) or (more common) the flywheel/magnet is gone (they have a habit of 'exploding' - like a friend's diesel where fragments of the magnet went through the loco shell), then the loco's speed control electronics think the motor is turning slow and thus it increases voltage to the can motor thinking it needs to speed up to compensate. Thus (and this is the same for an MTH loco where the speed tape on the flywheel has fallen off or the optical sensor has failed) the loco runs at full internal rectified voltage (Peak half wave rectified 6 vac is 8.5 volts DC to the 12 vdc can motor - so it is spinning pretty fast).

So you could turn the Oddessey OFF (switch on the bottom of the loco - if equipped) and see if it will run normally. No switch then you will have to have it repaired or replace the electronics (and/or flywheel).

The reason there is an Oddessey ON/OFF switch is early Oddessey locos ran erratically in conventional mode, jerking as speed was changed, irritating conventional users - thus the switch.

2. If the Weaver loco is a QSI sound/control system equipped loco, then the board may be toasted due to the previous owner letting the battery die and trying to run the loco or trying to run the loco on a newer Lionel 'chopped waveform' transformer (QSI was only for 'pure' sine wave AC transformers). Repair typ requires a reset chip set to repair. There is quite a bit on the Internet on how to reset a QSI system So not repeating it here (Google MTH PS1 reset). Sometimes making sure there is a good battery and it is charged properly the unit may come back to life. If you are familiar with the BCR (battery replacement using supercapacitors), replacing the battery with a BCR and following the BCR startup procedure can bring an old unit back to life.

Again - I am having the work with generalities unless you are able to provide more detail on the exact units you have.

BTW - apologies for any erratic spellings - Apple's autocorrect is the worst - it tries to think for you, can make corrections after you have moved to one or two words beyond the one corrected and it just takes too long to go backwards and fix all of it. It really gets lost on things like 'Oddessey' (yes I typed in Odyssey) and creates new words for you (Oddessey!) then stores them forever in its 'dictionary'...

Regards, Roy

            

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Posted by Locojunkie on Thursday, February 15, 2018 11:21 AM
I think you know what I have. My locomotives are A Lionel Norfolk Southern Dash 8 - 40c Mfg # 6-18213 and a Weaver O scale Brass M1a 4-8-2 Mfg # M1a if this helps. Thanks.
KRM
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Posted by KRM on Thursday, February 15, 2018 1:06 PM

Roy,

The Dash 8 - 40c Mfg # 6-18213 is from 1994 and is conventional electronis E-unit.

The Weaver is from 1990 and if it has not been messed with it features   two cab engineer figures, operating headlight and front marker lights, illuminated marker lights and back-up light on the rear of the tender, operating smoke unit with on/off switch, electronic reversing unit with lock-out switch, all metal wheels, axles and gears, sprung drivers, flywheel equipped motor for smooth operation and coasting, operating die-cast metal knuckle coupler on tender, real simulated coal load in tender. 1/4" Scale, overall length is 28", minimum curve is O-72 and it operates on O-gauge, 3-rail track with AC power.

But who knows what has been done to them in that amount of time?

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Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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Posted by rtraincollector on Thursday, February 15, 2018 3:08 PM

Kevin if my memory is correct, back then the weaver came as you stated or with PS1 in it. If it has PS1 it's as Roy said, Needs to be reset or possible fried. 

The Lionel if someone put TMCC in it that would do that if the R2LC board is either loose and needs to be taken off and put back on or is bad. I had a NYC GP-9 that did that. but I would think it would have to be in a command invirement, but maybe not. Anyway it sure seems something in one of the boards is messed up. 

Can you hold the engine in place and hit direction? if so does it go into nuetral?  

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

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Posted by EIS2 on Friday, February 16, 2018 9:50 AM

Locojunkie
The Lionel locomotive can not be controlled by decreasing the throttle or increasing the throttle and only has one speed which is very fast. 

Even if he has speed control, when he reduces the throttle to idle, the engine should not overspeed.

Earl

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Posted by rtraincollector on Friday, February 16, 2018 10:31 AM

That still tells me it has something to do with the elctronics, but I do agree with you that if he barely turnned the power up it should slow it down some what anyway. for some reason this engine is set at full throdel so it doesn't take much to make it go. now how it gets say that much power out of 3 or 4 volts is a good question. but tells me that is why it was sold at a good price, as stated.

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

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Posted by Locojunkie on Friday, February 16, 2018 10:32 AM

I got these trains at an auction. I will check on the PS1 reset kit, however if the board is fried does anyone have any ideas on what to use to replace it with? Any suggestions? Also, a friend told me that it may be stuck in neutral and can't switch to forward or reverse what would control that?

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Posted by rtraincollector on Friday, February 16, 2018 11:16 AM

I have heard that a reset could clear that but not sure how to do it on your engine.

Life's hard, even harder if your stupid  John Wayne

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KRM
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Posted by KRM on Saturday, February 17, 2018 8:20 AM

I don't have one and have never seen one but I would look for and try that lock-out switch.

Joined 1-21-2011    TCA 13-68614

Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL. Whistling

 

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