What is the difference between a Lionel "W" tender and the "WX" version?

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What is the difference between a Lionel "W" tender and the "WX" version?
Posted by Randy777 on Monday, February 12, 2018 5:38 PM

I am trying to put together some train sets with the correct engine, tender and cars.  One of the reference books I have lists (for example) a 6466WX as the correct tender for a particular set.  I have a 6466W tender.  Are these the same?  If not what is the difference?  I note the same issue with 2046W and 2046 WX.  Thanks!

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Posted by BigAl 956 on Tuesday, February 13, 2018 10:56 AM

My understanding is the 1952 version of the 681 became a 671 and gave up it's magnetraction due to Korean war limitations. The matching tender was renumbered X signifying it went with the 1952 671 (no magnetraction).

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Posted by rtraincollector on Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:00 PM

Al I have different engines that are matched with the WX and it is what the set calls for. 

examples my 1402W set is a 1666 with a 2466WX

my 2136WS is a 736 with a 2671WX 

but my  2265 is a 736 with a 2046W 

To answer your question thou, it can matter depending on the collector. If it calls for a WX by the book thats the one you need. 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, February 13, 2018 7:35 PM

This is a 2035 pulling a 6466WX tender:

This is a 2035 with a 2466W tender:

And here's one with a 6466W tender:

Personally, I just can't tell which is which without looking for the number on the bottom.

P.S. Welcome aboard!

Becky

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Posted by rtraincollector on Tuesday, February 13, 2018 9:09 PM

while there the same in appearence, To most collectors not runners theres a difference, which I believe that actually big Al was hitting on. But there's more than the 671 that it applied to. Basicly the WX was added to tenders that had engines with no magnetraction. So the big thing I guess is also if your set calls for a WX instead of a W then you engine should not have Magnetraction either. To be totally correct. 

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Posted by rtraincollector on Tuesday, February 13, 2018 9:16 PM

I sent Roger Carp a email asking him to step in and comment on the good question. 

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Tuesday, February 13, 2018 9:34 PM

Randy777
I am trying to put together some train sets with the correct engine, tender and cars...

6466WX 1948-49 
6466W 1950-52
2046W Lionel Lines
2046WX Pennsylvania

Rob

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Posted by Randy777 on Tuesday, February 13, 2018 10:28 PM

Thanks for the input.  I wasn't aware that any tenders had magnetraction, I thought that was only engines.

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Posted by teledoc on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:49 AM

ACDX Rob has it correctly stated, and Magnetraction has Absolutely nothing to do with the use of W vs. WX, on these tenders.  There are NO tenders with Magnetraction!!!!

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Posted by cwburfle on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:50 AM

Tenders do not have magnetraction.

Becky mentions 2466W and 6466W. The 2466W has an electromagnetic coupler, and probably has staple end trucks. The 6466W has a magnetic coupler, and probably has bar end trucks. Early 2466W tenders might have silver lettering (not certain on this).

What is the difference between a 6466W and 6466WX? - check the metal railings that are applied to the shell. I believe you will find differences.

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Posted by rtraincollector on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 10:16 AM

tenders do not have magnetraction. What was being relaid here was durning the years that WX was used was engine did not have magnetraction, because of the korean War. The use of steel was prohibited for items like toys. 

 

I corrected my comment, as some times I get typing slower than my thoughts, so sometime I will skip a word or two thinking I typed it. 

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Posted by Leverettrailfan on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 6:02 PM

So, to clarify here...

WX was used on tenders that were paired with magnetraction-lacking locomotives, that normally did come with magnetraction, but lacked it due to war limitations. This alteration occurred during the late ‘40s, and early ’50s. The tenders are virtually identical in every way, other than the “WX”, instead of just a W, at the end of the number.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 6:14 PM

One more monkey for the wrench.  The 2025 came with a 6466WX tender BEFORE magnetraction debuted.  So the X logic isn't entirely foolproof.

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Posted by RedfireS197 on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 6:22 PM

I thought that the X suffix was used to indicate that an item differed from the normal version.

For example, a 2671W tender has the shell lettered Pennsylvania, while a 2671WX is lettered Lionel Lines.

Another case is the 3461 and 3461-25 Operating Lumber Car.  Both 3461 and 3461-25 were packed in a larger box with the bin inside the box when offered for separate sale.

However, 3461X and 3461X-25 were packed in much smaller boxes to be included in a set with the bin being placed separately inside the set box.

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Posted by cwburfle on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 6:45 PM

So, to clarify here...

WX was used on tenders that were paired with magnetraction-lacking locomotives, that normally did come with magnetraction, but lacked it due to war limitations. This alteration occurred during the late ‘40s, and early ’50s. The tenders are virtually identical in every way, other than the “WX”, instead of just a W, at the end of the number.

I don't think so.

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Posted by Leverettrailfan on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:58 PM

 

cwburfle

So, to clarify here...

WX was used on tenders that were paired with magnetraction-lacking locomotives, that normally did come with magnetraction, but lacked it due to war limitations. This alteration occurred during the late ‘40s, and early ’50s. The tenders are virtually identical in every way, other than the “WX”, instead of just a W, at the end of the number.

I don't think so.

 

 

I was just asking, to help clarify the previous statements, which were a bit jumbled. My presumption, from the additional information, is that this was one cause for the WX, but, was not universal. 

 

That note about the “X” being used for midified/different versions of an item, sounds interesting. Is there anything more people know/think/have ideas about, concerning the addition of an “X” to item numbers? My curiosity has been piqued, I must know! ;)

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Wednesday, February 14, 2018 10:32 PM

Happy Valentine's everyone !

on this subject, I would call your attention to the July 2015 CTT, page 43. You may just find your answer !

Paul

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Posted by teledoc on Thursday, February 15, 2018 4:49 AM

****Postwarpaul,  Great answer, as not everyone has access or a copy of that back issue!!!  So how about you post the answer from what you reference from page 43. ****

2466W has no handrail; 2466WX has nickel handrail, both with Coil couplers::  6466W has Magnetic coupler, without railings; 6466WX has Magnetic coupler, had nickle railing:: 2046W Lionel Lines stamping; 2046WX Pennsylvania stamping, both with Magnetic couplers; 2671W has Pennsylvania stamping; 2671WX has Lionel Lines stamping, both with Magnetic couplers.

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Thursday, February 15, 2018 7:52 AM

Okey dokey.

To paraphrase that article I referenced, it mentioned the difference in the 2466w, and the 2466WX has to do with the windings in the the whistle motor. The WX is wound to operate at 9 volts for O-27, the 2466W is wound to operate at 11 volts for the O gauge line.

I figured if I said that, people would just say " No, that ain't it. You don't know what you're talkin' about".

I figured it was better for people to read for themselves.

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Posted by teledoc on Thursday, February 15, 2018 8:06 AM

Postwarpaul,  As I said in my last post, not everyone has access to that back issue.  Your comment about the whistle windings does have some merit. I don’t remember exactly, of which whistle motor is which, but there was both WS-75 & WS-85 motors.  One was supposed to be for 0 Gauge, the other for 027, which activate at different voltage settings.  If memory serves me correctly, you can read that comment about the two differences, in Olsen’s toy Train Parts “Library“ Website.  I can look it up later, and direct you to the reference.  The use of X is a totally separate subject, not to be confused with the X & WX, with Lionel tenders.  The WS-75 operates at 12 volts, the WS-85 operates at 14 volts.

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Posted by teledoc on Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:13 AM

BigAl 956,  What you referred to about Magnetraction, threw a wrench into the explanation.  The Korean War loco you are talking about, was the 671RR, that didn't have the magnets for Magnetraction, and was a 681 frame, with the magnets removed.  As issued as the 671RR, it was only produced in 1952, and was paired with a 2046WX tender, and NOT the 2046W.  The 2046WX had the stamping of 2046-50 on the frame, and not 2046WX.  The 671 loco was originally issued in 1946, as a double worm gear motor, flat mounted in frame & the 2020 was identical to it.  The 671 & 2020 was changed to a single worm gear motor, with the motor slanted. Neither of these two had magnetraction.  The 681 started with magnetraction, as was the 682.  All versions of the turbine used the same body, with a mold number 671-3, as seen inside the shell.

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Posted by BigAl 956 on Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:58 AM

What it comes down to is somebody in production came up with the WX suffix on the tender to make packaging non magnetraction engines (that were supposed to have magetraction) simpler. Have to just guess what they had in mind. 

My theory is the elimination of MT from some items in the line was a late change so they came up with the WX part number to assist the packers put the correct engines and tenders in the box. In most cases the engine and tender were boxed together so seeing a WX tender box may have assisted in the factory less they got confused as we all are here. :)

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Posted by Penny Trains on Thursday, February 15, 2018 6:21 PM

If you're NOT confused yet by the mysterious "X" markings, you're just not trying!  Laugh

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Posted by Postwar Paul on Thursday, February 15, 2018 11:21 PM

Ever feel like someone at Lionel is laughing at us ...?

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Posted by teledoc on Friday, February 16, 2018 4:38 AM

Al, Go back to my reply to Postwarpaul, that I highlighted his name in orange.  There are the explanations to each of the tender differences, that designate the W & WX stampings, If so marked.  There is nothing to associate the WX with Magnetraction locos.  Look at the 2035 & 2036 locos that had Magnetraction, with 6466W tenders, not “WX” tenders.

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Posted by rtraincollector on Friday, February 16, 2018 5:53 AM

What most of have been saying the WX was used on tenders that had engines made during the Korean war period that Didn't have magnetraction. That's the connection. If the engine has magnetraction then it just got a W on the tender. ( and was not made during the Korean war period) So to truly match a WX tender to a engine, the engine must be a non-magnetraction variation of that engine number or made during the Korean war period.

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Posted by cwburfle on Friday, February 16, 2018 7:20 AM

What most of have been saying the WX was used on tenders that had engines made during the Korean war period that Didn't have magnetraction. That's the connection. If the engine has magnetraction then it just got a W on the tender. ( and was not made during the Korean war period) So to truly match a WX tender to a engine, the engine must be a non-magnetraction variation of that engine number or made during the Korean war period.

 

Sorry, but according to the Greenberg book: Lionel Trains 1945-1969, volume VII: Selected variations:

 

2466WX was made between 1946-48, before ANY locomotives had magnetraction. I don't see where this book describes the difference between a 2466W (1945-46) and a 2466WX.

6466WX was made between 1948-49, also before any locomotives had magnetraction. The only difference I see in the descriptions are the railings. This one has a deck railing, the 6466W does not.


The 6466W was made between 1950-52


Both the 2466W and 2466WX have coil couplers.
Both the 6466W and 6466WX have magnetic coupler.

All this written, the Greenberg book does contain errors. Another place to look is in an unabridged Lionel Factory Service manual. I will try to take a look later today.

 

 

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Posted by oscar99 on Friday, February 16, 2018 7:35 AM

Magnetraction has nothing to do with this subject. 

The 2466wx tenders were produced up to 1948.

The 6466wx tenders were introduced in 1948 starting with 027 gauge engines and and sets, and used in 0 guage sets and engines in 1949.

In 1950 when maganetraction was first introduced  in Lionel steam locomatives  the handrails on the 6466wx tenders were elimated and the tender was numbered 6466w. The 773 produced in 1950 had magentraction and came with a 2426w tender. the 2426w was produced in between 1946 and 1950 came with the 726 engines which did not have magnectraction and in 1950 with the magnetraction equiped 773. The 2426w did not have a X after the W in its number. Magnetraction does not have anything to do with or without magentraction tender numbers.

 

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Posted by cwburfle on Friday, February 16, 2018 8:04 AM

I took a look in my copy of the large format Greenberg reprint of the Lionel service manual, which has as many pages as they were able to find.

1 - prior to 1948, Lionel did have separate 027 (WS-75) and 0 (WS-85) whistle assemblies. They were replaced by WS-125. The WS-75 and WS-85 are the style that is a one piece assembly, the field is riveted to the whistle body, and the fan side bearing is in the whistle chamber cover. The WS-125 has the motor as a seperate piece that cat be removed.

2 - I found parts listings for 6466W and 6466WX. They are from different years.
Almost all the parts that are listed are identical except:

- 6466wx used shell 2466wx-6 and handrail 1666t-5
- 6466w used shell 2020w-6, the handrail is listed, but marked obsolete.

Both tenders are listed as using WS-125.

For comparison, an early 2466W listing gives whistle WS-75, body 2466W-6 and handrail 1666T-5. While a later 2466W gives the whistle as WS-125. It appears that Lionel updated the parts list to reflect the availability of whistle units.

I guess the next step would be to try to find an accurate listing of engines and matching tenders

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Posted by Randy777 on Friday, February 16, 2018 10:56 AM

I certainly triggered a long involved discussion with my W vs WX question.  In the September 2001 issue of Classic Toy Trains a table was published called the Lionel Postwar Engine-Tender Reference Guide.  This table does not explain the W vs WX difference, but does indicate which tenders are paired with which engines and the years cataloged by Lionel.  Since most of the preceeding discussion has involved the 2466W,WX and 6466W,WX I will list all the associated pairings and years below.

224 2466W 1945, 1946

224 2466WX 1946

675 2466WX 1947, 1948

675 6466WX 1948, 1949

1666 2466W 1946

1666 2466WX 1946, 1947

2025 2466WX 1947

2025 6466WX 1948, 1949

2025 6466W 1952

2026 6466WX 1948, 1949 The WX was always paired with the 2-6-2 version of the 2026 engine

2026 6466W 1951, 1952  The W was always paired with the 2-6-4 version of the 2026 engine

2035 6466W 1950, 1951

2036 6466W 1950

It seems in every case the W version came after the WX version -- and usually this meant some type of cheapening of the product (such as removal of handrails as was mentioned in a previous post). Somewhere in the Lionel archives there must be some rationale for this W vs WX designation

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