Postwar 6464 boxcars...boxes w/cellophane windows???

[Anonymous]

Greetings everyone. I am just getting involved in collecting/running postwar Lionel trains, and I don't want to get hosed on EBA.Y.

My first question: Did any of the classic 6464 boxcars (built I believe in either the late 1950s, in 1966, or both) come in boxes with cellophane windows? I see one that looks interesting, but I'm still trying to figure out how to tell the originals from later reissues (which I assume exist).

Any insights would be much appreciated!

[Anonymous]

I don't recall any of the original 6464 series cars coming in boxes with the windows. The later reissue cars will have a number like 6-followed by a five digit number, or advertised with just the five digit number, indicating a re-issue. The original cars came only as their 6464-100, or whatever.

Many of th re-issues came with boxes looking very much like the original boxes, without the windows, too. I believe all the 3 pack re-issue cars came in original style LIonel boxes without windows. The original boxes did evolve in lettering over time. Later boxes, while without windows, had pictures on the tops showing a steam and diesel locomotive, where the earliest boxes had only the LIonel color stripes and number, no lithograph work.

The original cars came with a solid side-frame truck, one piece. The re-issues come with sprung trucks, which is really a nice looking and upgraded feature, but not original. That's probably the easiest way to spot a re-issue.

Price will often be a give-away on the originals. The 6464 series are still rather popular with collectors, and cars in excellent condition will command quite a bit more than the re-issues. Lionel did a beautiful job on the new cars, excellent reproductions of the originals. I'm sure there have been more than a few people fooled at the meets thinking the newer cars were originals.

The vast majority of eBay model train sellers will be happy to answer any questions regarding what they have on their site. Don't hesitate to ask a question and check their feedback and policies on satisfaction and returns should the product be misrepresented. It's pretty rare to find any re-issues being represented as originals unless you have a seller which doesn't have enough experience in the hobby to know the difference.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info. I feel a bit better armed going into the wars...

Now what about this item? Supposedly original 6464 series, but check out the box!

http://www.train-station.com/cgi-local/auction.cgi?action=newbid&item=7810021

[Anonymous]

I have to correct my earlier post. The 6464 cars are popular and there has been a lot of research on the cars passed on in several books.

I found that there were at least 4 cars that were produced in their original form that used the window boxes. The -475 car appears to be the first to be offered with the cellophane window. I suspect the car was in a set that included the 773 hudson or maybe one of the high end diesel sets. Three other cars are also shown catalogued with the window box and came in sets as well as sold individually. These cars had rather low production numbers and command rather high prices with the original boxes.

The above four cars also came in boxes without the window feature. I would sure want to see the end flaps of the window boxes and be sure they had the 6464 number plus the series number of the car, such as 6464-475. The names of the cars were sometimes not on the flaps, but they always had the car numbers shown. There were of course thousands of cars sold with the see-through window feature, but only a very few 6464 cars, so the 6464 box identification would be crucial to be authentic.

[Anonymous]

The 6464-450 is original in every respect. That is one of the most beautiful cars in the 6464 series, and a great price if it holds up. I have a picture of a 6464-475 with the exact style box and numbering so I would feel very comfortable with the authenticity of the set. My book doesn't show that car being available with the window box, yet that box is original. Corrections and revisions get made in many of the books as time goes on so the fact that I don't find it in my book shouldn't be of any issue.

The offering comes from the Train Station in New Jersey. I don't think you would have any concerns about the car as this store would stand behind anything they sell. There have been a few comments about their auctions and sales on a couple of the web sites and they have all been positive.

[lionelsoni]

Chenango, notice that there is no "built" date, which I think indicates the 1966 version. My guess is that it is a 1966 body and box with the original trucks replaced by bar-end ones. My own 1966 6464-450 got the same treatment from some previous owner, but with staple-end trucks.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the great info.

I just realized that my handle seems like it could be my name, whereas it is actually the name of the railroad line (long since torn up) that ran behind my neighborhood when I was growing up!

[lionelsoni]

John "Chenango Branch" e-mailed me to ask whether replacing the trucks on a 6464-450 would affect its value. Since I'm more an operator than a collector and not an expert on values, would anyone care to comment on my guess that it probably would, based on the assumption that a serious collector would want everything about the model to be correct for one version or the other and not mixed, even though both versions have similar value?