Read this >>> especially if you are M. DONALDSON, Sandy Jorgenson, 10ben10, or Frankie CSX

[Bergie]

M. DONALDSON, Sandy Jorgenson, 10ben10, Frankie CSX. You’ll notice that your Trains.com accounts are now locked, for the following reasons:

Suspicion of using multiple accounts. This is strongly frowned upon. If you feel the need to set up multiple accounts to get your various viewpoints across, please consider this an invitation to leave our forum. There’s nothing wrong with sharing your opinions and viewpoints, but setting up multiple accounts to do so, isn’t allowed. Furthermore, setting up multiple accounts to stir up a fire or attack another member isn’t allowed.

Using a bogus e-mail address in your Trains.com registration. If I try to e-mail you (which in all these cases I did) and your e-mail bounces, your account is going to be locked. It’s not necessary to use a bogus e-mail address with us in order to avoid receiving spam. We don’t send spam... we only send e-mails to those who have opted-in to receive our e-mail newsletters and we occasionally send a special promotional e-mail to announce a new product. We don’t sell, rent, or trade our user’s e-mail addresses with anyone. If you’ve used a bogus e-mail address while registering with us, please update your profile so you’re not locked in the future.

I’m sorry if it appears I’m coming down hard on all of you, but these actions are becoming more frequent and need to be addressed. We appreciate everyone’s contributions to our forums, so long as you play by the rules. If in the near future these types of activities continue, don’t be surprised if we have to make changes to our forum policies. If users can’t behave under the current conditions where we assume a certain level of faith that everyone is registering with proper credentials and in good faith, maybe we have to move to a pay-for-use policy in the future. I know, your blood pressure just went up, but hear me out.

Having a small annual fee will assure two things. First, everyone who registers to use our forums is legitimately committed to contributing in a positive fashion (since they’ve had to outlay their own hard-earned money to sign up). This will improve the quality of the conversations by cutting out those who are only here to create friction. I know we risk losing newcomers who are just stopping in to ask some simple questions, and that’s unfortunate. But over time, maybe it would entice more newcomers to participate because the overall culture will be much improved and they’ll feel more comfortable in our new setting.

Second, a small annual fee will assure that everyone who signs up is a legitimate person. By legitimate, I mean that, since they’d have to use a credit card to sign up, that their identity would be verifiable, if necessary. We can change our registration process to include an e-mail validation process, but free e-mail accounts are too easy to establish so an e-mail address doesn’t cut it. The only way to assure proper validation is via a credit card transaction. Again, just like you trust us (Kalmbach Publishing Co.) not to send you spam as a result of giving us your e-mail address, you know you can trust us with your credit card information.

Again, sorry if this sounds drastic, but take some time to think about the positive ramifications it could have.

I hate to have such a negative tone, but hopefully it will lead to a more positive 2005. As always, if you have any poor forum behavior to report, please e-mail me at [e-mail]. Also, if you’d like to comment on this topic outside of the forums, please feel free to e-mail me. Lastly, if you are M. DONALDSON, Sandy Jorgenson, 10ben10, or Frankie CSX and would like to validate any of your e-mail addresses to regain access, e-mail me.

Happy holidays everyone.
Erik

[lupo]

Bergie,
some forums require answering an e-mail send to the e-mail adress you provided to finish your signing up, that will filter out bogus e-mail adresses,
and about the credit card stuff: how about our younger members who do not have a credit card allready, ( where I live you have to be 18 to get one ) you can't force them to leave isn't this supposed to be a forum for all ages ?

btw you could skip the forum fee for Kalmbach magazine subscribers,

[Big_Boy_4005]

Erik,

Thanks for addressing this problem, it has been going on long enough. While this set of entities is not the only one out there, it has been one of the more problematic ones. I really like DJ and Lupo's ideas when it comes to trying to prevent future abuse.

As those of us who frequent the CTT forum know, the mere mention of any kind of fee to access the forums is a dangerous thing. Last spring, a competing forum announced such a plan, and the result was chaos. That may have been the event that brought this particular problem here in the first place.

The success of Trains.com is built on it's diverse demographics. I worry that setting the membership bar too high will kill the action.

The regular contributors here know that you have a lot more important things to do than to "babysit" the forums. It does seem that lately you have been forced to intervene more frequently. I just hope that an equitable, and more premenant, solution can be found to address this problem in the future.

[ChiefEagles]

Thanks a million. Keep up the good work. Guess they will learn manners now. [;)]

[Anonymous]

This site compared to others has always been reasonably mild and mostly composed of modelers with interesting topics to share. It seems like the quantity and quality of posts has increased the past few months along with the quantity of viewers.

This is probably a good time to fine-tune again and the registration process suggestion where a confirmed e-mail address is necessary would go a long way towards cutting abuse down. Some websites, www.trainorders.com, for one has implemented a fee and the quality of the site has improved, and contrary to many posters initial thoughts, the membership has continued to increase. So you have a lot of options to consider. I hope that the interest in the forums will continue to grow as more modelers find out about the site and all the various information that can quickly be accessed.

[Anonymous]

I like the Magazine idea! That would work for me!

[ben10ben]

Bergie,
Thanks for your action on this matter.

As I said with the whole OGR fee matter, I would not mind one bit to pay to participate in this forum.

[IRONROOSTER]

While I understand the problem, I hope you don't have to charge. I'm not sure how many of our younger members have credit cards. I have a low limit credit card for internet use ( I trust you, but I am never 100% sure that anything that goes across the net is safe - heck with all the spyware floating around I'm not even sure it'll make it off my computer uncompromised. ) so from that standpoint I'm okay, but others probably aren't. I would hope that you would at least keep reading free.

While I am not an authority on the forums, at least for all the ones I have visited, this is the best one. Charging will cost some members and probably block some potential member from joining. What affect this will have for good or bad is unknown. I would recommend trying some of the other suggestions above first.

And while I may not say it very often: A BIG thanks to you for having this forum.

Enjoy
Paul

[spankybird]

We must not be the only part of the forum having troubled members

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26370

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by spankybird

We must not be the only part of the forum having troubled members

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26370

Tom, that is a slightly different problem, but similarly annoying just the same. Solutions proposed here would probably clean that up too.

[spankybird]

Hi Elliot, I miss the problem on Trains Forum but did see the one of 10Ben10 on MR forum. It just seems like there are some troubled forum member out there, and it appears not just on the CTT part.

[Buckeye Riveter]

I have only three things to say:
Civility costs nothing and buys everything. - Lady Mary Wortley Montagu (1689-1762)

Rudeness is a weak man's imitation of strength. - Eric Hoffer (1902-1983)

Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.— Cato the Elder, Roman censor (234-149 B.C.)

[3railguy]

QUOTE: M. DONALDSON, Sandy Jorgenson, 10ben10, Frankie CSX. You’ll notice that your Trains.com accounts are now locked, for the following reasons

LMAO!!!

QUOTE: Second, a small annual fee will assure that everyone who signs up is a legitimate person. By legitimate, I mean that, since they’d have to use a credit card to sign up, that their identity would be verifiable, if necessary

A nominal fee is fair. I've yet to see a venfor post their wares here or badger our views as I've seen on another forums. You appear to support our privacy so I have no real beef. (as long as it isn't $89.95/year)

QUOTE: I’m sorry if it appears I’m coming down hard on all of you, but these actions are becoming more frequent and need to be addressed.

No appology needed. This is between you and the trolls. You appear to have a level headed temper and a sense of humor. it's not like you lock your caps and call us a bunch of children the minute a thread turns sideways.

[Anonymous]

I enjoy coming here, but won't if trains.com installs a fee.

Not because I am cheap, but because there are many other train forums out there that will allow me to participate for free.

Another solution may involve inviting a few long-time members (I can think of a number of good condidates) to become moderators in one or two sections of the forum.

The positive about having regulars as moderators, is they are often around and all the other regulars would know them and respect their actions.

Something to think about.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by spankybird

Hi Elliot, I miss the problem on Trains Forum but did see the one of 10Ben10 on MR forum. It just seems like there are some troubled forum member out there, and it appears not just on the CTT part.

I saw that one too, and experienced momentary confusion. I nearly mistook 10Ben10 for Ben10ben. It was a fairly clear attempt to defame a decent member, by creating such a similar name.

[spankybird]

QUOTE: By Big_Boy_4005
I saw that one too, and experienced momentary confusion. I nearly mistook 10Ben10 for Ben10ben. It was a fairly clear attempt to defame a decent member, by creating such a similar name.

So was I. I almost sent Ben an e-mail when I saw the differance.

I can almost guess who that was.

tom

[Anonymous]

Eric,

Ted E Bear, Bill Conner, Danny Christopher, Frankie Z... These are other aliases by Sandy Jorgenson et al.

You might want to lock those out as well.

[Anonymous]

If you lock out Hotmail accounts I am gone. That is all I have. I refuse to pay by credit card I don't trust anyone with this after my own college which I now attend "lost" my own as well as 1000 some others credit info. It was next to impossible to remedy. I will not go through this again.

[daan]

Eric, I know you need to maintain the order on the forum, but I don't have a credit card (you don't need one in Holland), and getting the magazine via a dutch magazine service.
I hope you won't go into those ways to keep everyone sincere, since it means that I would have to leave..[V]
Not that I'm that important, but the forum and its members are important to me!

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DJSpanky

Erik:

As someone who has moderated a number of message boards, one suggestion I have which might help with the registration process is to avoid accepting anyone who uses an email address from known free email providers. A couple of years ago we were able to cut down on problems on one board just by not accepting Hotmail and Yahoo email addresses. The list of free providers has expanded since then, but it wouldn't be that hard to implement this.

Spank

If I were smart and not foolish I wonder if I would become clamped down like the rest due to the free fine email that I use for now. Yes; to curb "E-crime" now that I can understand. What I wonder is how to define who is honest and who is just being a problem in the forums.

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by IRONROOSTER

While I understand the problem, I hope you don't have to charge. I'm not sure how many of our younger members have credit cards. I have a low limit credit card for internet use ( I trust you, but I am never 100% sure that anything that goes across the net is safe - heck with all the spyware floating around I'm not even sure it'll make it off my computer uncompromised. ) so from that standpoint I'm okay, but others probably aren't. I would hope that you would at least keep reading free.

While I am not an authority on the forums, at least for all the ones I have visited, this is the best one. Charging will cost some members and probably block some potential member from joining. What affect this will have for good or bad is unknown. I would recommend trying some of the other suggestions above first.

And while I may not say it very often: A BIG thanks to you for having this forum.

Enjoy
Paul

I'm less than 18 years old and haven't yet received credit card applications, but I know I will soon. I just don't trust that I am safe in paying fees for forum posting. Hmmm, wonder where the dough will come from?

[3railguy]

It might help if registered users submit to drug screening before posting. CTT could publish a list of health centers that provide this service.

[Anonymous]

If free email is not allowed to be used on these forums, I will have to quit. I enjoy reading them and I will miss all the people on here. But if that is what it takes, not much I can do about it. I hope this all works out for the best.

[egmurphy]

Bergie,

I can understand the frustration with trying to police the board when there are a few troublemakers.

Hope you find another way other than not accepting free (i.e. hotmail) addresses as that is what we use for our email. Even if this were implemented only for new memberships (assume that all existing forum memberships are grandfathered in) I'd be concerned that it might eliminate more legitimate potential new participants than troublemakers.

While I personally wouldn't have a problem with a fee for use, I do worry that such a policy (especially if it was credit card based) might cut down a lot on younger forum membership and activity.

Sorry I don't have any good suggestions for controlling the problem. Thanks for providing the forum. Although I participate in several different model railroad forum sites (being retired I have time to waste), the various forums here are my favorites.

Regards

Ed

[Bergie]

Thanks to everyone who has responded. Let me assure you that the “pay for forum use” concept has not come up in any Trains.com meeting. That was simply my idea this morning for a way to help assure quality. I knew I’d get constructive feedback, and I have. Thanks again.

Bergie

[nitroboy]

Anywhere you go, there will always be that 10% that screws everything up. No matter what you do, it will always be there. Even if you institute a fee, you will still get that 10%. Murphy's Law.

[railfanespee4449]

This forum means a lot to me. I depend on this forum to get help with my trains. I come here almost daily!

[wrmcclellan]

Bergie,

I agree with Nitroboy. Even if you had a fee, it is unlikely that it would prevent some folks from getting out of control once in a while. The open forum ensures that we can reach as many potential new toy train enthusiast as possible.

Take particular note that in the past couple of weeks there have been 2 significant postings of unusal, yet significant trains for us to view and comment upon. Many many posts from new users needing help. I dare say that many of these would not have occured if they had to pay a fee and we would all be poorer for it.

I think you should have some clear rules posted that are always available so everyone understands what will happen if a thread degrades. There are a lot of young users and students that represent the future of the hobby. If this becomes an unpleasant experience due to lax or inconsistent application of forum usage policies, it will harm the future of the hobby.

These rules could be updated as new situations warrant - which then gives the participants a chance to align.

This is a great forum and I sincerely appreciate CTT and Kalmbach providing it. I subscribe to several Kalmbach publications.

Regards,
Roy

[eolafan]

One word for Bergie.....BRAVO!

[superwarp1]

I don't use this forum enough to pay for it. I'm sure there are otherways to keep the losers off of it.

Gary